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Free Cheese

Posted By: Randy GageJune 5, 2012

I’m down in Key West, finishing my book, so the posts may be sporadic this week.  But Annie raised an issue on the last post that is worth addressing, and is actually part of the new book.  And it leads to the real, bigger issue, which is what is the role of government?

In many places around the globe, we have crossed over a line that spells ominous trouble for the future…

The people who are receiving government assistance now outnumber the people who are producing and paying into the kitty.  Government entitlement programs have run amuck.  And once you provide an entitlement for someone, they begin to see it as their “right.”  We’ve lost sight of one of the basic tenets of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.  To quote Thomas Jefferson:

To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

So now we have millions of people around the world who believe it is their government’s responsibility to provide sewers, roads, hospitals, airports, sports arenas, and hundreds of other infrastructure requirements better left to the private sector.  They also believe they are now entitled to education, medical care, retirement plans, insurance, and prescriptions.

They believe they’re entitled to these things by virtue of the flag they were born under.  As citizens, they believe it is their human right to receive these things free from the government (meaning taxpayer), and they’re not concerned with how they get paid for - as long as it isn’t by them.

The problem with all this soak-the-rich philosophy is it is in direct violation of the laws that govern prosperity.  And, ironically, the real victims of this philosophy are actually the poor.  They’re the last to get hired, the first to get laid off, the most in need of assistance, and the least likely to have the resources to deal with adversity.

Some of these economic theories would have you believe governments get to operate by a different set of rules than the rest of us.  But they don’t.  The prosperity principles for governments are no different than they are for people.

The only free cheese is in the mousetrap.

Thoughts?

- RG

104 comments on “Free Cheese”

  1. I understand what you're saying Gage. I believe that the system is being stretched beyond it's limits but one thing I do firmly believe is that everyone should be entitled to free healthcare.

    1.  @MehulShah health care (or any other good or service) may be provided at "no charge" to its recipients -- but there is no such thing as "Free" -- that's the point of the article -- reading is fundamental, no?

    2.  @MehulShah So just to clarify, are you saying that all doctors, nurses and medical staff have to work for free?  Can we also include prostitutes and massage therapists in that?  I think that would be nice.  And what if the nurses say that they think all babysitters should work for free?  How does all this work exactly?  -RG

      1.  @Randy_Gage  @MehulShah there is a word that describes the condition of being compelled to work for no, or unjust, compensation -- remember that word? begins with an "S" .....

        1. ah, I assume you mean "what is enough compensation"?  well, why would you not want a market of buyers and sellers to "make" those sorts of decisions? A little thing once known as Liberty!

      2.  @Randy_Gage I made no mention of doctors, nurses and medical staff having to work for free. What I am saying is that every American CITIZEN, regardless of their  social position or age should have access to a state managed, tax payer funded health care system (including access to hospitals and their GP, other services like opticians and dentists should be paid for). 
         
        Not everyone has developed the prosperity consciousness of you or I; does that mean that they are less worthy? I am not talking about Free Cheese as you put it. I firmly believe that these are basic rights: Healthcare and Education. 
         
        I was born and brought up in the UK. The product of a single parent household. Although my mother was working, if we would have had to pay for healthcare, I don't think it would have been financially viable. Much like Melissa, I also took a government student loan for my University education. If this option was not available I don't think it would have been able to study further. At some point the state does have to step in for the greater good. Better to spend taxpayers money on developing a healthcare system then on the recent wars.
         
        I am now living in Kenya, where there is a very dysfunctional healthcare system which is state funded to a very small limit. I see the effects of people from humble backgrounds having to pay for healthcare. It just doesn't work. 
         
        I as you, was poor, I wouldn't wish the lack of free healthcare on anyone in that situation. It also goes without saying that those under 18 and those over retirement age should have this completely free, period.

        1.  There is no "free lunch" ~ having said that when a society decides (through its political system) to provide healthcare, economic help to its citizens it then becomes the "will of the people" . democracy is flawed, but has proven to be better than, dictatorship, kings/queens, warlords etc.
           
          When we (as citizens) provide education, food support, basic security for all of the people we get (for our dollar) a stable society that occasionally creates the opportunity for people to grow and contribute ~ like Randy ~ which in turns lifts all of society. So although not perfect it does provide a return on dollars invested in (education, food support, security) and it costs money.
           
          While I defend the right of each person to build, grow and amass wealth, without a secure growing society in general, wealth becomes irrelevant ~ take look at Somalia, Africa ~ ruled by warlords, battling extremists, a society where the notion of goodwill, opportunity and equality has disappeared. Perhaps education is needed rather than extremism, if democracy fails, we all fail, Geoffrey
           
           

  2. I understand what you're saying Gage. I believe that the system is being stretched beyond it's limits but one thing I do firmly believe is that everyone should be entitled to free healthcare.

  3.  @MehulShah health care (or any other good or service) may be provided at "no charge" to its recipients -- but there is no such thing as "Free" -- that's the point of the article -- reading is fundamental, no?

  4. Hey Randy, having just visited family in Wisconsin, I'm sure you're familiar with the political tension going on here.  We have a governor hated by many for taking away thier free cheese - and at the same time admired and supported strongly by the producers for standing up against unconstitutional gov't handouts.  A classic case of moochers vs. producers.  If the moochers get their way, the producers will simply leave.  That is an ugly death spiral we do not want to create.

    1. @WessRipley It's already being created on a larger scale by the federal government. Gte more and more people dependent on government handouts so you can create that dependent class. It's growing in the U.S. daily.

  5. Hey Randy, having just visited family in Wisconsin, I'm sure you're familiar with the political tension going on here.  We have a governor hated by many for taking away thier free cheese - and at the same time admired and supported strongly by the producers for standing up against unconstitutional gov't handouts.  A classic case of moochers vs. producers.  If the moochers get their way, the producers will simply leave.  That is an ugly death spiral we do not want to create.

  6. I'm somewhat in the middle on this, this total Libertarian view that everything done by private enterprise is better than government is complete bullshit... the U.S. spends the most on health care and it's system is ranked like 37th in the world in terms of results..
    On the other hand you can't make tax so onerous, like Britain in the 60's where they taxed 90% and drove any sane rich person away from their shores...
    I tend to side with Stephen King an author who came from dirt poor poverty,  worked his ass off, donates millions to charities that he cares about, but still came out a month ago in a column for Slate, Huffpost, Salon, can't remember one of those that I subscribe, and said, raise my fucking taxes!

    1.  @napadavid argument by assertion, followed by an Appeal to Authority fallacy -- LOL! 37th ranking is preposterous -- look at how those data were interpreted -- things like infant mortality in the US are measured if a child does not survive beyond its 6th month -- in the "comparatives" that "result" in the US being ranked 37th, those data are compared to "systems" where infant mortality is only counted in the first 48 hours -- but those looking to repeat nonsensical talking points seldom look that deep and I don't expect you to do so. Government is not intrinsically evil -- but its incentives are not often aligned with anything other than hope in the angelic character of its operators -- where do we, or will we in future, find such angels?

    2. @napadavid I love it when idiots come out publicly crying for the government to raise their taxes. Why don't they just out their money where their mouth is and send in more themselves? Nobody is stopping or penalizing them from doing that.

    3. @napadavid
      The reason the US healthcare sucks so badly and is so expensive is because the government has it's filthy mitts all over it. The FDA is run by Monsanto who outlaws any safe and natural drug and passes chemical addictive drugs. Because of the FDA natural remedies are forced to pay huge sums to get to market, up to $100m at times. All the special interest groups use government to regulate and tax their competition out of business. Licences block competition in health care giving doctors artificially high wages. 
       
      The government has a monopoly on Medical Training. Doctors are taking 10 years to get educated when for most problems it is completely unnecessary. A good nutritionist or first aider could fix a large amount of the problems. There are laws blocking safe drugs sold in most other countries. 
       
      You cannot buy insurance over state lines. Employers are forced to buy insurance for their employees which then pushes up all medical costs because no one looks at the prices, they just pay everything on their insurance. In most areas you cannot even find the price. Not to mention the Federal Reserve printing so much money that the savings and wages of the middle class and poor are being wiped out. While the prices are rising rapidly due to inflation. 
       
      I could go on with a huge list of government intervention but I think you get the idea. America is not even close to the free market. If it was prices would be at most 1/5 of the price it is now. 

      1.  @WDavidC
         and the bailout worked for the car companies-thousands of Americans are working and the U.S. automobile is prospering.  They are even paying the loans back.

  7. I'm somewhat in the middle on this, this total Libertarian view that everything done by private enterprise is better than government is complete bullshit... the U.S. spends the most on health care and it's system is ranked like 37th in the world in terms of results..
    On the other hand you can't make tax so onerous, like Britain in the 60's where they taxed 90% and drove any sane rich person away from their shores...
    I tend to side with Stephen King an author who came from dirt poor poverty,  worked his ass off, donates millions to charities that he cares about, but still came out a month ago in a column for Slate, Huffpost, Salon, can't remember one of those that I subscribe, and said, raise my fucking taxes!

  8. So,if so many people are thinking "entitlement', where do we begin to change? So there is no misunderstanding, I agree totally Randy.

  9. So,if so many people are thinking "entitlement', where do we begin to change? So there is no misunderstanding, I agree totally Randy.

  10.  @MehulShah So just to clarify, are you saying that all doctors, nurses and medical staff have to work for free?  Can we also include prostitutes and massage therapists in that?  I think that would be nice.  And what if the nurses say that they think all babysitters should work for free?  How does all this work exactly?  -RG

  11.  @napadavid argument by assertion, followed by an Appeal to Authority fallacy -- LOL! 37th ranking is preposterous -- look at how those data were interpreted -- things like infant mortality in the US are measured if a child does not survive beyond its 6th month -- in the "comparatives" that "result" in the US being ranked 37th, those data are compared to "systems" where infant mortality is only counted in the first 48 hours -- but those looking to repeat nonsensical talking points seldom look that deep and I don't expect you to do so. Government is not intrinsically evil -- but its incentives are not often aligned with anything other than hope in the angelic character of its operators -- where do we, or will we in future, find such angels?

  12.  @Randy_Gage  @MehulShah there is a word that describes the condition of being compelled to work for no, or unjust, compensation -- remember that word? begins with an "S" .....

  13. Of course i adore this post!
     
    I was born into "no dinner, no linen, and roaches infested home type of poverty". As a child my family received government assistance. After joining a network marketing company i "met" Randy Gage and fell in love with the idea of prosperity. After reading, listening, and learning, I decided to go after my dream. I went to school received my high school diploma and Bachelors degree. Both were paid for by the government. I am currently in grad school that I am paying for myself and between working and practicing the laws of prosperity I can finally afford to live without handouts. However, the rest of my 8 siblings, yes I wrote EIGHT, are all still receiving government assistance.
     
    So, what's the difference?
     
    I had my appetite moistened to something bigger than me. I learned concepts that gave my childhood dreams a new boost.  I do not own a TV and work hard on guarding my prosperity consciousness. All the handouts in the world could not have given me the energy to get up and go daily and practice the laws of prosperity-it was connecting to people, websites, and speakers that focus on something greater, that kept me inspired. HOWEVER, it was the handouts that insured that my family had some food to eat and a roof over our heads while we were kids.
    This is not a one or the other issues. This is not black and white. To me, there is a time and place for each. Children should always be protected-call it handouts if you must- and able adults should be given support to go after their passions and dreams. And of course, without a prosperity consciousness, even giving finances will not help an adult get out of a life of poverty...

  14. Of course i adore this post!
     
    I was born into "no dinner, no linen, and roaches infested home type of poverty". As a child my family received government assistance. After joining a network marketing company i "met" Randy Gage and fell in love with the idea of prosperity. After reading, listening, and learning, I decided to go after my dream. I went to school received my high school diploma and Bachelors degree. Both were paid for by the government. I am currently in grad school that I am paying for myself and between working and practicing the laws of prosperity I can finally afford to live without handouts. However, the rest of my 8 siblings, yes I wrote EIGHT, are all still receiving government assistance.
     
    So, what's the difference?
     
    I had my appetite moistened to something bigger than me. I learned concepts that gave my childhood dreams a new boost.  I do not own a TV and work hard on guarding my prosperity consciousness. All the handouts in the world could not have given me the energy to get up and go daily and practice the laws of prosperity-it was connecting to people, websites, and speakers that focus on something greater, that kept me inspired. HOWEVER, it was the handouts that insured that my family had some food to eat and a roof over our heads while we were kids.
    This is not a one or the other issues. This is not black and white. To me, there is a time and place for each. Children should always be protected-call it handouts if you must- and able adults should be given support to go after their passions and dreams. And of course, without a prosperity consciousness, even giving finances will not help an adult get out of a life of poverty...

  15. ah, I assume you mean "what is enough compensation"?  well, why would you not want a market of buyers and sellers to "make" those sorts of decisions? A little thing once known as Liberty!

        1.  @million dollar
           Just that we have to care, because otherwise huge decisions are made without our input that can affect our lives in big ways
           

  16.  @Randy_Gage I made no mention of doctors, nurses and medical staff having to work for free. What I am saying is that every American CITIZEN, regardless of their  social position or age should have access to a state managed, tax payer funded health care system (including access to hospitals and their GP, other services like opticians and dentists should be paid for). 
     
    Not everyone has developed the prosperity consciousness of you or I; does that mean that they are less worthy? I am not talking about Free Cheese as you put it. I firmly believe that these are basic rights: Healthcare and Education. 
     
    I was born and brought up in the UK. The product of a single parent household. Although my mother was working, if we would have had to pay for healthcare, I don't think it would have been financially viable. Much like Melissa, I also took a government student loan for my University education. If this option was not available I don't think it would have been able to study further. At some point the state does have to step in for the greater good. Better to spend taxpayers money on developing a healthcare system then on the recent wars.
     
    I am now living in Kenya, where there is a very dysfunctional healthcare system which is state funded to a very small limit. I see the effects of people from humble backgrounds having to pay for healthcare. It just doesn't work. 
     
    I as you, was poor, I wouldn't wish the lack of free healthcare on anyone in that situation. It also goes without saying that those under 18 and those over retirement age should have this completely free, period.

  17. true true true! interesting enough how people have become sure that their first "debtor" is a government, and how the governments use that to make them its debtors.. especially it is so obvious in Greece nowadays...people, wake up.

  18. true true true! interesting enough how people have become sure that their first "debtor" is a government, and how the governments use that to make them its debtors.. especially it is so obvious in Greece nowadays...people, wake up.

  19. I agree it's not all black and white, but as to where do we start, that's an easy question.  We need to stop making rules/laws that treat our citizens like 3 yr olds and start treating them/us like teens preparing to be good, conscionable adults .  Don't just punish the bad behavior, but reward the good.  Encourage, don't control.  Make a fairer tax system, including taxing welfare.  Raise the amount by 10% then tax it at 10%.  Those who are on assistance will feel more like a productive member of society and realize that they have "skin in the game".  Reward success, don't demonize it.  We have heard so many times these past 3+ years that an income of $250,000 is "rich" that I'm sure more than one glass ceiling has been erected at a lower point than it might have been.  Remind government workers that they are paid by their neighbors, parents, and children and that it is called civil SERVICE.  Instill respect and value in personal production.  For too long people have been taught to "get a job".  Then the union mentality and the concept of tenure rewards time spent over quality of work.  Remove retirement as a goal.  Successful people don't retire because they enjoy and see value in what they do.  Return the social safety nets to being just that, safety nets.  Social Security was never meant to be a retirement plan, and few were ever supposed to collect it.  And reform unemployment.  Instead of a set amount at a percentage of your earnings for a finite amount of time, it should be a steady decreasing amount by a certain percentage for however long it takes.  People adjust to living on a lower "wage" but would be more apt to actually look for work if that amount kept getting cut by %10 every four weeks.

  20. I agree it's not all black and white, but as to where do we start, that's an easy question.  We need to stop making rules/laws that treat our citizens like 3 yr olds and start treating them/us like teens preparing to be good, conscionable adults .  Don't just punish the bad behavior, but reward the good.  Encourage, don't control.  Make a fairer tax system, including taxing welfare.  Raise the amount by 10% then tax it at 10%.  Those who are on assistance will feel more like a productive member of society and realize that they have "skin in the game".  Reward success, don't demonize it.  We have heard so many times these past 3+ years that an income of $250,000 is "rich" that I'm sure more than one glass ceiling has been erected at a lower point than it might have been.  Remind government workers that they are paid by their neighbors, parents, and children and that it is called civil SERVICE.  Instill respect and value in personal production.  For too long people have been taught to "get a job".  Then the union mentality and the concept of tenure rewards time spent over quality of work.  Remove retirement as a goal.  Successful people don't retire because they enjoy and see value in what they do.  Return the social safety nets to being just that, safety nets.  Social Security was never meant to be a retirement plan, and few were ever supposed to collect it.  And reform unemployment.  Instead of a set amount at a percentage of your earnings for a finite amount of time, it should be a steady decreasing amount by a certain percentage for however long it takes.  People adjust to living on a lower "wage" but would be more apt to actually look for work if that amount kept getting cut by %10 every four weeks.

  21. @napadavid I love it when idiots come out publicly crying for the government to raise their taxes. Why don't they just out their money where their mouth is and send in more themselves? Nobody is stopping or penalizing them from doing that.

  22.  There is no "free lunch" ~ having said that when a society decides (through its political system) to provide healthcare, economic help to its citizens it then becomes the "will of the people" . democracy is flawed, but has proven to be better than, dictatorship, kings/queens, warlords etc.
     
    When we (as citizens) provide education, food support, basic security for all of the people we get (for our dollar) a stable society that occasionally creates the opportunity for people to grow and contribute ~ like Randy ~ which in turns lifts all of society. So although not perfect it does provide a return on dollars invested in (education, food support, security) and it costs money.
     
    While I defend the right of each person to build, grow and amass wealth, without a secure growing society in general, wealth becomes irrelevant ~ take look at Somalia, Africa ~ ruled by warlords, battling extremists, a society where the notion of goodwill, opportunity and equality has disappeared. Perhaps education is needed rather than extremism, if democracy fails, we all fail, Geoffrey
     
     

  23. @WessRipley It's already being created on a larger scale by the federal government. Gte more and more people dependent on government handouts so you can create that dependent class. It's growing in the U.S. daily.

  24.  Thanks for this, Randy. I agree with you...as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm a self-employed U.S. expat who resides in Canada, so I can see both sides. The Government is viewed as a noun in the states and a money-grabbing, ill-managed one at that. I tend to agree.    
         In Canada, the Government is viewed as the collective conscious of all. Not in a scary, Borg way. It's just that Canadians feel more of a sense of control over how Government money is spent. Because they pay taxes--a LOT of taxes--they watch over every last dime. And they want that money spent on things they feel help their citizens, like health care and employment insurance. They think it's their duty as a civilized society.      
         Because of how the elected Government is structured, politicians get their butts kicked out fast if that money is mismanaged. We should do that more in the states.      
         But...I don't think socialized anything works in American culture. Our American view is that the rights of the individual trump all. In Canada--and I think in a lot of Scandinavian countries--the greater common good is considered first.     
         Meanwhile, I'll stay here. I live a pretty damn good life.

  25.  Thanks for this, Randy. I agree with you...as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm a self-employed U.S. expat who resides in Canada, so I can see both sides. The Government is viewed as a noun in the states and a money-grabbing, ill-managed one at that. I tend to agree.    
         In Canada, the Government is viewed as the collective conscious of all. Not in a scary, Borg way. It's just that Canadians feel more of a sense of control over how Government money is spent. Because they pay taxes--a LOT of taxes--they watch over every last dime. And they want that money spent on things they feel help their citizens, like health care and employment insurance. They think it's their duty as a civilized society.      
         Because of how the elected Government is structured, politicians get their butts kicked out fast if that money is mismanaged. We should do that more in the states.      
         But...I don't think socialized anything works in American culture. Our American view is that the rights of the individual trump all. In Canada--and I think in a lot of Scandinavian countries--the greater common good is considered first.     
         Meanwhile, I'll stay here. I live a pretty damn good life.

  26. Great topic here, Randy. Growing up, my mother, brothers and I were receivers of government assistance. I didn't understand the pros and cons that much back then, but I did know that the life I lived growing up would not be the one I would allow for myself as an adult. However, about 3 years ago, my life took a turn when I was laid off. My partner-in-life and I were looking at foreclosure, and at the time I thought that government assistance would help us out a bit. I also knew that I had contributed my tax dollars to the pot  for years; so I figured, it was the least the government could do. I was only on it for 6 months and they started asking questions about my partner-in-life's income. He's in banking and real estate - so neither of us wanted to give up his information. Nor did we think we should have too. In my eyes, if I didn't have the right to marry the man who has encouraged me to better myself, and who also would encouraged me to break-free of  my self-limiting beliefs about my abilities to become a writer - then certainly the government didn't have the right to ask me about how much he earned. "The nerve", I thought. It was very easy for me to tell them where they could put that assistance, when it came time to "renew my contract to get free cheese." Quite frankly, I didn't want it in the first place... it was more of a need. As soon as, I let it go though, I was able to get a strategy and a game plan that continues to grow and make room for me - making it my own way. Thanks for the sharpening, RG! 🙂 

  27. Great topic here, Randy. Growing up, my mother, brothers and I were receivers of government assistance. I didn't understand the pros and cons that much back then, but I did know that the life I lived growing up would not be the one I would allow for myself as an adult. However, about 3 years ago, my life took a turn when I was laid off. My partner-in-life and I were looking at foreclosure, and at the time I thought that government assistance would help us out a bit. I also knew that I had contributed my tax dollars to the pot  for years; so I figured, it was the least the government could do. I was only on it for 6 months and they started asking questions about my partner-in-life's income. He's in banking and real estate - so neither of us wanted to give up his information. Nor did we think we should have too. In my eyes, if I didn't have the right to marry the man who has encouraged me to better myself, and who also would encouraged me to break-free of  my self-limiting beliefs about my abilities to become a writer - then certainly the government didn't have the right to ask me about how much he earned. "The nerve", I thought. It was very easy for me to tell them where they could put that assistance, when it came time to "renew my contract to get free cheese." Quite frankly, I didn't want it in the first place... it was more of a need. As soon as, I let it go though, I was able to get a strategy and a game plan that continues to grow and make room for me - making it my own way. Thanks for the sharpening, RG! 🙂 

  28. @napadavid
    The reason the US healthcare sucks so badly and is so expensive is because the government has it's filthy mitts all over it. The FDA is run by Monsanto who outlaws any safe and natural drug and passes chemical addictive drugs. Because of the FDA natural remedies are forced to pay huge sums to get to market, up to $100m at times. All the special interest groups use government to regulate and tax their competition out of business. Licences block competition in health care giving doctors artificially high wages. 
     
    The government has a monopoly on Medical Training. Doctors are taking 10 years to get educated when for most problems it is completely unnecessary. A good nutritionist or first aider could fix a large amount of the problems. There are laws blocking safe drugs sold in most other countries. 
     
    You cannot buy insurance over state lines. Employers are forced to buy insurance for their employees which then pushes up all medical costs because no one looks at the prices, they just pay everything on their insurance. In most areas you cannot even find the price. Not to mention the Federal Reserve printing so much money that the savings and wages of the middle class and poor are being wiped out. While the prices are rising rapidly due to inflation. 
     
    I could go on with a huge list of government intervention but I think you get the idea. America is not even close to the free market. If it was prices would be at most 1/5 of the price it is now. 

  29.  @million dollar
     Just that we have to care, because otherwise huge decisions are made without our input that can affect our lives in big ways
     

  30. this is very true.You in a the good old USA are witnessing socialism creep into yr society .Living in Canada we see this to a greater extent.I don't think its a big deal yr Government doesn't control your destiny .YOU DO!!!!!!

  31. this is very true.You in a the good old USA are witnessing socialism creep into yr society .Living in Canada we see this to a greater extent.I don't think its a big deal yr Government doesn't control your destiny .YOU DO!!!!!!

  32. let me add this...If you can't govern yourself someone else will.there is an increased need in America for Government to get involved.People are loosing faith and looking else where more often for the help they need.TRUE help comes from within.Freedom comes with a responsibility to serve others .There is no better time then Now to live Rich and Inspire others to BE the person they where born to Be.You are Rich can you believe it!!

  33. let me add this...If you can't govern yourself someone else will.there is an increased need in America for Government to get involved.People are loosing faith and looking else where more often for the help they need.TRUE help comes from within.Freedom comes with a responsibility to serve others .There is no better time then Now to live Rich and Inspire others to BE the person they where born to Be.You are Rich can you believe it!!

  34. Wow, great topic for discussion Randy. I believe in our lifetime that the Government's role will be greatly reduced and the power will return back to State's and more importantly, local, private sector power.
     
    The sense of entitlement across the board is out of control in the U.S. I may have to write a post on my blog to clarify it more.

  35. Wow, great topic for discussion Randy. I believe in our lifetime that the Government's role will be greatly reduced and the power will return back to State's and more importantly, local, private sector power.
     
    The sense of entitlement across the board is out of control in the U.S. I may have to write a post on my blog to clarify it more.

  36. Thanks for addressing the issue Randy.  I really don't want to argue though, but I will.  I have lots I would like to say about your post....
     
    Oh Randy, you big Randy, I just don't like disharmony believe it or not.  I know I started this one.  I am pretty sure you and most the others here know how I feel already.
     
    Let's all get along.  Is there a middle ground?  There is truth and untruth here, opinions, theories, and facts.  There are lots of problems with the government today and lots of problems in society.  Maybe it is better to focus on what works.
     
    I like to hear yours and others opinions, because it is not the way I see things, so it gives me something to think about.  Sometimes, it changes my mind in little ways, and sometimes it strengthens my already held beliefs.
     
    I know this, whether I agree with you or not, and even when I think your being just plain crazy Randy, I still like you.
     
    Anyway, I never knew that quote from Thomas Jefferson.  I will think about it.  It's funny though, because those men said things like that back then and yet owned slaves.  Crazy.
     
    Anyway, I don't think the rich get soaked so much.  I mean do they really?  It seems like it is usually my group, the middle class that takes the hit and pays for many of these programs.  I am alright with it though.  I like having good public schools, and nice libraries, and police and firefighters......... 
     
    Government helps society function, it also causes some dysfunction.  Why?  Because the government is comprised of people, it's us, people like you and me.  So, just like humanity it has flaws and strengths.
     
    Randy, not that I am sure you really believe doctors and nurses and other medical professionals won't get paid if there is some kind of larger public health care system, don't worry.  Public schools are free and the staff gets paid, Libraries are free, and the staff gets paid.  There are already free clinics in most urban places, the people who work there get paid. They will get paid.  And I hope it will be well. 
     
    Remember we are all in this together.  WE THE PEOPLE.  🙂
     
    Hope you are having fun writing in Key West.
     
    Annie
     
     
     

  37. Thanks for addressing the issue Randy.  I really don't want to argue though, but I will.  I have lots I would like to say about your post....
     
    Oh Randy, you big Randy, I just don't like disharmony believe it or not.  I know I started this one.  I am pretty sure you and most the others here know how I feel already.
     
    Let's all get along.  Is there a middle ground?  There is truth and untruth here, opinions, theories, and facts.  There are lots of problems with the government today and lots of problems in society.  Maybe it is better to focus on what works.
     
    I like to hear yours and others opinions, because it is not the way I see things, so it gives me something to think about.  Sometimes, it changes my mind in little ways, and sometimes it strengthens my already held beliefs.
     
    I know this, whether I agree with you or not, and even when I think your being just plain crazy Randy, I still like you.
     
    Anyway, I never knew that quote from Thomas Jefferson.  I will think about it.  It's funny though, because those men said things like that back then and yet owned slaves.  Crazy.
     
    Anyway, I don't think the rich get soaked so much.  I mean do they really?  It seems like it is usually my group, the middle class that takes the hit and pays for many of these programs.  I am alright with it though.  I like having good public schools, and nice libraries, and police and firefighters......... 
     
    Government helps society function, it also causes some dysfunction.  Why?  Because the government is comprised of people, it's us, people like you and me.  So, just like humanity it has flaws and strengths.
     
    Randy, not that I am sure you really believe doctors and nurses and other medical professionals won't get paid if there is some kind of larger public health care system, don't worry.  Public schools are free and the staff gets paid, Libraries are free, and the staff gets paid.  There are already free clinics in most urban places, the people who work there get paid. They will get paid.  And I hope it will be well. 
     
    Remember we are all in this together.  WE THE PEOPLE.  🙂
     
    Hope you are having fun writing in Key West.
     
    Annie
     
     
     

  38. My Dad told me I will always be entitled to a good, swift kick in the ass. What he was telling me that I have to go out and earn things myself.

  39. My Dad told me I will always be entitled to a good, swift kick in the ass. What he was telling me that I have to go out and earn things myself.

  40. Many thoughts, Randy!
    No, I won´t place them ALL down, but a few! 🙂
     
    What you describe in your post pretty much meets what´s up in Germany. See, our Government took over a lot to take care of, after WWII, to get them all back on their feet. It was a tough time and challengign task and everyone needed and wanted a job.
    Now, that baby boomers soon are gone from the work stage (some already via unemployment) but soon rule the old generation in our country, the flipside gets up: more people in the stage of NEED (retirement, health care raises, free time, more entertaining...), and just a few (compared) who have to cover it.
    How?
    Nobody knows.
    Retired people are being asked lready to work for free and support the young ones. Where shall all the money come from for the retirement of the baby boomers? I don´t know. there is no concept. Research showed: there was never in history such a generation-issue for any country in the world like this - so - there´s no answer. The strong system will flip. It was made for the big race, the job-run but not for retiring.
    Not everything was covered by the Governement in the long run, just for starrting in the 50´s and 60´s, but since 20 years or even longer, e.g. sport arenas/city halls and small hospitals here and there were built by private sectors and they made a lot of money with it, running it. Not eveyone made it via a long and hard production of he product "x" in our country. 
    In the meantime disabled people automatically have to retire. I own such a "pass"/paper since more than 40 years and now that I am back in a new job on the lower income-level after being unemployed for 10 months, I wasn´t being offered a contract as a disabled.
    No. They gave me the 5 days extra on the vacation account but not officially in the contract. 5 days - it is what the Governments gives "us" for working hard full-time, supporting "healthy" people which are mentally less stronger, as "disabled" ones, but officially the contract doesn´t state it anymore. Over and out. The benefit of leaving 2 years earlier into retirement with no cut of the salary is deleted. 
    Means: either way your healthy & fine (which I am in-officially and right now) or your out and retired.
    Black OR White.
    A system build on logic: the Zero fault principle, either you have/are a fault or you´re not.
     
    So what about the future and who shall support the on-going needs of the folks in each country?
    I think it is worth & necessary to discuss and deeply think about, maybe not on your BLOG post stage - but some where!
     
    Randy, why don´t you start your Prosperity TV Show (any offers yet?) and use that potential new stage for leading future tasks onto an action stage? 
    --> great discussion already here....
    🙂
     
     
     

  41. Many thoughts, Randy!
    No, I won´t place them ALL down, but a few! 🙂
     
    What you describe in your post pretty much meets what´s up in Germany. See, our Government took over a lot to take care of, after WWII, to get them all back on their feet. It was a tough time and challengign task and everyone needed and wanted a job.
    Now, that baby boomers soon are gone from the work stage (some already via unemployment) but soon rule the old generation in our country, the flipside gets up: more people in the stage of NEED (retirement, health care raises, free time, more entertaining...), and just a few (compared) who have to cover it.
    How?
    Nobody knows.
    Retired people are being asked lready to work for free and support the young ones. Where shall all the money come from for the retirement of the baby boomers? I don´t know. there is no concept. Research showed: there was never in history such a generation-issue for any country in the world like this - so - there´s no answer. The strong system will flip. It was made for the big race, the job-run but not for retiring.
    Not everything was covered by the Governement in the long run, just for starrting in the 50´s and 60´s, but since 20 years or even longer, e.g. sport arenas/city halls and small hospitals here and there were built by private sectors and they made a lot of money with it, running it. Not eveyone made it via a long and hard production of he product "x" in our country. 
    In the meantime disabled people automatically have to retire. I own such a "pass"/paper since more than 40 years and now that I am back in a new job on the lower income-level after being unemployed for 10 months, I wasn´t being offered a contract as a disabled.
    No. They gave me the 5 days extra on the vacation account but not officially in the contract. 5 days - it is what the Governments gives "us" for working hard full-time, supporting "healthy" people which are mentally less stronger, as "disabled" ones, but officially the contract doesn´t state it anymore. Over and out. The benefit of leaving 2 years earlier into retirement with no cut of the salary is deleted. 
    Means: either way your healthy & fine (which I am in-officially and right now) or your out and retired.
    Black OR White.
    A system build on logic: the Zero fault principle, either you have/are a fault or you´re not.
     
    So what about the future and who shall support the on-going needs of the folks in each country?
    I think it is worth & necessary to discuss and deeply think about, maybe not on your BLOG post stage - but some where!
     
    Randy, why don´t you start your Prosperity TV Show (any offers yet?) and use that potential new stage for leading future tasks onto an action stage? 
    --> great discussion already here....
    🙂
     
     
     

  42. The tricky about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
     
    One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I happen to think it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
     
    I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. I had the opportunity of attending one of the best private schools in Melbourne and when I compare my education to the young kids leaving public schools today, I think it's disgraceful. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. Other people my age that went to public schools don't have the same literary or numeracy skills that I acquired and I honestly think that they're at a disadvantage when we're pitted against each other in a job interview situation. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's in their geographical boundaries. The good schools would be overwhelmed and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.

  43. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
     
    One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I happen to think it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
     
    I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. I had the opportunity of attending one of the best private schools in Melbourne and when I compare my education to the young kids leaving public schools today, I think it's disgraceful. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. Other people my age that went to public schools don't have the same literary or numeracy skills that I acquired and I honestly think that they're at a disadvantage when we're pitted against each other in a job interview situation. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's in their geographical boundaries. The good schools would be overwhelmed and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
     

  44. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
     
    One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I think that it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
     
    I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. When I look at the education young kids leaving public schools receive today, I think it's a disgrace. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's inside their geographical boundary. The good schools would be overwhelmed, hopefully paying the good teachers better, and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
     

  45. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
     
    One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I think that it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
     
    I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. When I look at the education young kids leaving public schools receive today, I think it's a disgrace. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's inside their geographical boundary. The good schools would be overwhelmed, hopefully paying the good teachers better, and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
     

  46.    Well,your issues are very vague about big goverment--another attempt at your libertarian ideology but no facts to back your beliefs in an economic systems for the 21th century.  Since you mentioned,that this will part of your book,I will to see the facts before commenting.
        When Libertarians,Repubicans and conservatives talk about Europe,they never mentioned the Scandinavian Model because it doesn't fit their ideology.  In fact,reality clashes with their ideology.  Norwegians pay the second highest taxes in the world and yet they have a $600 billion surplus.
       Hopefully,you will finally defined your political terms before a debate can happenned.
      As for social security--which by the way has run a surplus since its inception,and medicared-everyone has paid into the system.
       I wonder how you feel about the CEO giving themselves millions in compensations while they bankrupted the companies-the most agregrious examples have been the five largest banks in the U.S.

    1. The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology. The problem is that America does not. People still have the idea that America is an example of free market Capitalism, but it hasn't been since 1912. It is a perfect model of corruption and special interest groups screwing everyone for their own gain through the government. It is also a model of war mongering at a level that has never been seen before. The Americans have probably killed at least 30m people in the last 100 years. That is part of the reason why they are in so much debt
       
      Scandinavia does most things much much better than America because at least their government programs are actually designed to help poor people. It does it much worse than the free market would do it though. In America the poverty programs are designed to help the lobbyists.
       
      America has the highest corporation tax in the world. Citizens of America pay tax on income not even earned in America. Many are actually paying over 60% of their income to the government when you add all the hidden taxes. The Federal Reserve is wiping out the middle class with huge inflation. Average people can no longer work and save their way to wealth, almost everyone has to be an investor, or business owner to get wealthy.
       
      In the old America products got cheaper every year. Savings were more valuable every year. People could put away 10% of what they earn and be rich in Retirement. Now if you put away 10% in Dollars you will have almost nothing in retirement. Inflation is running at about 10% if you use the 1970 CPI calculation, not the new manipulated one to help hide the inflation.
       
      On the Bailouts point you made below, Of course they worked. When a thief robs a bank he does very well from it. That is obvious. In a free market they would have gone bust and another company would have bought the good assets and then the company would have been successful long term. Now they will be back for another bailout in less than 5 years. Guaranteed!!!! Because the company did not fix the problems
       
       
      Also, It is foolish to use Republicans and libertarians in the same example because they are almost exactly opposite.Republicans and democrats are almost identical. More war, more spending, more debt, more inflation, more programs, more inflation, more restrictions, more laws, continue the drug wars, IRS, Federal Reserve, NAFTA, U.N, internet regulation etc etc. Libertarians are for less or none of all the above.
       
       

      1.  @WDavidCz
         The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology.  So,please defined what you mean by Libertarian.  As a I have studied history,Libertarian wanted less goverment and the "invisible hand" of the market would balanced supply and demand. 
            Libertarians don't believe in Social Security,Medicared,the EPA,the Federal Reserved and so on.
           Maybe,Randy,will defined how he defined Libertarian--maybe it is different of the policial social history of the 18th century in France since that's where it originated.
           Mitt Rommey pay at a 15% tax bracket.  Why hasn't he released his income tax because they are moving the money from the tax havens in Bermudas.
           Danes pay the highest taxes in the world and their economy is growing.--let's say compared them to Mexico where the richest person lives and 1/2 of the population makes $800.00 per month.

        1.  @Enrique  @WDavidCz You said libertarians never mention Scandinavia because it does not fit their ideology. I was not saying that Scandinavian was libertarian, I was saying that it perfectly backs up the libertarian view of the world when we actually know the facts and not the propaganda.
           
          The people who praise Scandinavia so highly are generally people who have never actually lived there. They look at statistics and base their view on that and then compare it with America (the so called beacon of small government and capitalism, laughing as I type this because they are the opposite of that). 
           
          It seems great compared to the corruption capital of the western world (USA) or other Socialist European countries like Spain, Greece, Romania, UK etc. But it is far far off being the best way to live. 
           
          What is wrong with Moving money to tax havens? America was founded by people who wanted to avoid tax. Avoiding tax and people taking care of themselves is the most American thing a person can do. I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be looking down thinking - "if only people would be more patriotic and pay more taxes!" He would be rolling in his grave at the thought of the taxes and rules imposed on the American People. 
           
          Corporate tax rate in Norway is 28% last time I checked. Sweden 26%. America 35%. USA has a lower personal tax rate but the highest corporate tax rate, hardly a free market. 
           
          If we had a real free market the economy wouldn't only be growing it would be booming every year and we wouldn't be having all the booms and busts caused by the Federal Reserve and Congress.
           
          The world had 2 classes for thousands of years. Rich Royals, Politicians and Churchmen then there were the struggling masses. Then in 200 years of American free market the largest and richest middle class in the history of the world was created. But now that it is Socialist like the rest of the world the middle class is being wiped out and the friends of the politicians are getting much much richer and the poor are getting much much poorer. This will continue until freedom is restored and we have real money again. Not funny government fiat currency. We need the rules to be lifted from small businesses so that low income people can compete against the corporations that use the regulations to destroy their small competition. 
           
           
           
           

        2. What are the facts about Scandinavia according to you?These what I have learned and saw when I visited Sweden and Norway.
          1)No homeless people.
          2)Universal health insurance.
          3)Banks are regulated
          4)Progressive taxation
          5)40% of board of directors in the Norwegians companies are women
          6)women and men are paid half of their salaries to raised their kids for a year.
          and yet there are millionaries in those small countries.
            And of course,they never taught in your American history that "English" have slaves doing all the dirty work. --You just proved my point-A libertarian stuck in 1776.
             Please explain to me why most of the wealth of nation is been created in California?A state that have higher taxes and more regulations than the rest of the country.--
            These is the problem withl libertarians,they still stuck in Agragrian and Industrial Age when we are living in a knoweldge based economy.
             Please give specific examples like I have to defend your point if you can. 
           

        3. And of course,you forgot to mentioned that personal income tax for the top 1% is 15% or less while in Denmark is 60% and they don't have all the tax-loopholes created for the corporations.
           

        4.  @Enrique As far as Socialism goes, Norway probably is in the top 10 most desirable structures. Their health care is a lot better than most other Socialist Countries. I live in the UK, at my local hospitals you will wait at least 9 hours in a waiting room to get someone to see you. Then you may have to wait weeks to get treated if it is not too serious. Or if you want an operation it can take over 2 years if you are allowed it at all. 
           
          The NHS is a horrible place, and you are more likely to get sick just being in the hospitals. An average person will pay over £150k for the NHS over their lifetime through taxes. 
           
          The problem Libertarians have is that we no longer have any examples of the free market in healthcare. The governments meddle in every developed country. America having the worst of Socialism and the worst of Capitalism combined. We can only look at brief periods in time when there were free markets. Before the governments got involved in American health care prices were falling rapidly, quality was rising rapidly, it was more accessible and private than any other country in the world. The Scandinavian countries still get most of their technology and drugs from America because they were the most innovative. That is changing rapidly because of the FDA though. 
           
          Personally I am not a fan of being forced to by anything. I hate mandates. I want to decide for myself. Universal health care is a horrible use of force over people. I want to buy my products on the free market without any government intervention. 
           
          Progressive taxation is a sure way to discourage production. Punish the people who grow the economy and reward those who shrink the economy through consumption. Whatever is rewarded happens more, whatever is punished happens less. A tax is a punishment for success. 
           
          Don't care at all how many women or men work in a company. I do not want to do business with any company that overlooks the best person to meet a quota. If a man is the best qualified he should get the job no matter how many other men are in the company. It is sexist/ racist to refuse him a job based on his sex or white skin. Now racism/ sexism is wrong unless it is against white men. We need everyone to be treated as individuals not their groups. 
           
          Who pays the salaries for the women to raise children? The employer who is trying to take care of themselves and is now forced to look after someone elses child while they are not working? or the state? People who never have children are forced to pay for those who do? That is hardly a fair system. Again another horrible use of force and violation of private property. 
           
          The banking sector is the most regulated industry in America and look how that turned out. They only need to be regulated because of the moral hazard the government created by insuring bank accounts and mortgages. Then allowing fractional reserve banking. Taking the country off the gold standard so we now use worthless paper that can be created from nothing. Free market banking is self regulating. The banks will have 100% reserve so there will be no runs. Or they would have investment banks who lend out money for a set period of time and it cannot be claimed before that. Therefore banks would remain solvent and finally we could have deflation again, allowing poor people to save for retirement as their wages are more valuable each year. 
           
          You are good at pointing out the obvious seen benefits but seriously overlook the cost and consequences. For every benefit through government someone is left holding the bill for it or loses freedom. 

        5.  @Enrique Not sure where you are pulling your numbers from. The top tax rate in the US is over 60% when you total everything up. It looks like 15% because of the way people like Mitt Romney, Warren Buffet earn their income. But that is possible in Norway. They also have a lot of loopholes they are just not publicised as well as the US media does it. If you earn $10m per year in salary in New York you will pay around $6m of that to the Government just like in Norway. 35% federal, 9% state, 3% local, SS, medicare, property tax, sales tax, import tax, inflation and hundreds of other taxes that are hidden probably takes it over 60%. 

        6.  @Enrique Also give me 10 well paid workers over 10 slaves any day of the week and I will trump all the slave owners in profits. The North won the war because they were richer. The south lost because they could not compete and they had the slaves. Sorry but History is not on the Socialist Liberal side. They lose when the facts are presented every time. Hong Kong vs China. East Germany vs West Germany. North Korea vs South Korea. Free America vs the Rest of the world. Freedom always creates the most wealth for everyone. 

        7.  @WDavidC
           So,I am still waiting for an example where a libertarian philosophy is better than social democracies.  Maybe,Hong Kong?--freedom-and yet those countries like West Germany,South Korea and U.S. have regulated capitalism because it destroy itself.
           
           

        8.  @WDavidC
           Let's assume you are right-about 60% for all taxes in the U.S.--and yet the U.S has more billionaries than any other country.  Let's take the example of Mexico-where the richest person lives--Carlos Slim>Why is he the richest person in the world?because he has a monopoly in the telephone industry.--is that whay you mean by free markets?

        9.  @WDavidC
             the problem with the ibertarian mind is that they confused communist and totalitarian regimens with social democracies.  The economy is run by private companies in Scandinavia,the Netherelands and Germany.

        10.  @WDavidC
             I love how libertarian defined production--How about a teacher?A teacher in Finland makes $100,000 and out of the 500 slots,they have 5,000 apllications.  90% of the elementary teachers in the U.S. are women,why not make that a valuable,and well paid job?because that's not where males work.
             I guarantee you if society valued elementary teachers,and most were males,they will be getting raises and bonuses just like they do in corporations.

        11.  @Enrique Hey Enrique. Sorry Tried to reply sooner but I couldn't log in on my phone and just got my computer back. 
           
          Just wanted to throw in a point about Carlos Slim. I was curious as to how you feel he managed to create his monopoly in the Telephone industry in Mexico? How did he manage to keep out AT&T, Telephonica, Vodafone, Orange etc? How for so many years did none of these companies go into mexico and break his monopoly? Is it because he is providing such amazing service at such a low cost that no one could compete or did he use government to block any competition?
           
          I think your answer will quickly show why I love the free market and despise government intervention in the economy. 99% of Monopolies that have lasted over 5 years are propped up and protected by government while the small competition and the consumer is always sacrificed to support the monopoly. I challenge you to name 3 monopolies that lasted more than 5 years without government support or government over regulating small competition out of business. I have tried and not been able to find 3. Free markets destroy monopolies, governments create and protect them.
           
          Post Office, NHS, Schools, Universites, Big Pharma, Monsanto, Wall Street, Freddie and Fannie, Goldman Sachs etc.  

        12.  @Enrique  @WDavidC America was the closest example to the libertarian philosophy from 1800 - 1913. It was about 80-90% libertarian and created the largest and richest middle class ever seen. The reason capitalism always destroys itself is because free people allow free speech. Then the socialists move in and the free people let them discuss their ideas. Then the socialists decide that freedom isn't perfect so they group together and use force to get the things they want. 
           
          They legalise theft, force government money on people, regulate businesses out of business, put in minimum wages, set interest rates artificially, manipulate the money supply which creates booms and busts. Create moral hazards by insuring bank accounts and mortgages which allows over speculation. They create funny fiat money that allows fractional reserve banking and creates runs on the banks. They give special rules to some industries like banking, health care and schooling messing up price signals and creating malinvestment. They print money which creates inflation and wipes out the wages and savings of the middle class. They tax certain income classes which discourages them and subsidise others which wrongly encourages them. 
           
          They create monopolies and protect them then bail them out when they go bad. The list of Socialist polices that destroy capitalism is almost endless. Then capitalism gets the blame. 
           
          Every economic downturn in American history lasted 3-24months when they had gold backed money and government didn't get involved in fixing it. Then in 1927 the federal reserve lowered interest rates and increased money supply creating a stock market bubble, then when it burst in 29 the government created the biggest intervention in american history and the depression lasted 192 months. That is good evidence that free markets work and government mess the market up. 

  47.    Well,your issues are very vague about big goverment--another attempt at your libertarian ideology but no facts to back your beliefs in an economic systems for the 21th century.  Since you mentioned,that this will part of your book,I will to see the facts before commenting.
        When Libertarians,Repubicans and conservatives talk about Europe,they never mentioned the Scandinavian Model because it doesn't fit their ideology.  In fact,reality clashes with their ideology.  Norwegians pay the second highest taxes in the world and yet they have a $600 billion surplus.
       Hopefully,you will finally defined your political terms before a debate can happenned.
      As for social security--which by the way has run a surplus since its inception,and medicared-everyone has paid into the system.
       I wonder how you feel about the CEO giving themselves millions in compensations while they bankrupted the companies-the most agregrious examples have been the five largest banks in the U.S.

  48.  @WDavidC
     and the bailout worked for the car companies-thousands of Americans are working and the U.S. automobile is prospering.  They are even paying the loans back.

  49. The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology. The problem is that America does not. People still have the idea that America is an example of free market Capitalism, but it hasn't been since 1912. It is a perfect model of corruption and special interest groups screwing everyone for their own gain through the government. It is also a model of war mongering at a level that has never been seen before. The Americans have probably killed at least 30m people in the last 100 years. That is part of the reason why they are in so much debt
     
    Scandinavia does most things much much better than America because at least their government programs are actually designed to help poor people. It does it much worse than the free market would do it though. In America the poverty programs are designed to help the lobbyists.
     
    America has the highest corporation tax in the world. Citizens of America pay tax on income not even earned in America. Many are actually paying over 60% of their income to the government when you add all the hidden taxes. The Federal Reserve is wiping out the middle class with huge inflation. Average people can no longer work and save their way to wealth, almost everyone has to be an investor, or business owner to get wealthy.
     
    In the old America products got cheaper every year. Savings were more valuable every year. People could put away 10% of what they earn and be rich in Retirement. Now if you put away 10% in Dollars you will have almost nothing in retirement. Inflation is running at about 10% if you use the 1970 CPI calculation, not the new manipulated one to help hide the inflation.
     
    On the Bailouts point you made below, Of course they worked. When a thief robs a bank he does very well from it. That is obvious. In a free market they would have gone bust and another company would have bought the good assets and then the company would have been successful long term. Now they will be back for another bailout in less than 5 years. Guaranteed!!!! Because the company did not fix the problems
     
     
    Also, It is foolish to use Republicans and libertarians in the same example because they are almost exactly opposite.Republicans and democrats are almost identical. More war, more spending, more debt, more inflation, more programs, more inflation, more restrictions, more laws, continue the drug wars, IRS, Federal Reserve, NAFTA, U.N, internet regulation etc etc. Libertarians are for less or none of all the above.
     
     

  50.  @WDavidCz
     The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology.  So,please defined what you mean by Libertarian.  As a I have studied history,Libertarian wanted less goverment and the "invisible hand" of the market would balanced supply and demand. 
        Libertarians don't believe in Social Security,Medicared,the EPA,the Federal Reserved and so on.
       Maybe,Randy,will defined how he defined Libertarian--maybe it is different of the policial social history of the 18th century in France since that's where it originated.
       Mitt Rommey pay at a 15% tax bracket.  Why hasn't he released his income tax because they are moving the money from the tax havens in Bermudas.
       Danes pay the highest taxes in the world and their economy is growing.--let's say compared them to Mexico where the richest person lives and 1/2 of the population makes $800.00 per month.

  51.  @Enrique  @WDavidCz You said libertarians never mention Scandinavia because it does not fit their ideology. I was not saying that Scandinavian was libertarian, I was saying that it perfectly backs up the libertarian view of the world when we actually know the facts and not the propaganda.
     
    The people who praise Scandinavia so highly are generally people who have never actually lived there. They look at statistics and base their view on that and then compare it with America (the so called beacon of small government and capitalism, laughing as I type this because they are the opposite of that). 
     
    It seems great compared to the corruption capital of the western world (USA) or other Socialist European countries like Spain, Greece, Romania, UK etc. But it is far far off being the best way to live. 
     
    What is wrong with Moving money to tax havens? America was founded by people who wanted to avoid tax. Avoiding tax and people taking care of themselves is the most American thing a person can do. I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be looking down thinking - "if only people would be more patriotic and pay more taxes!" He would be rolling in his grave at the thought of the taxes and rules imposed on the American People. 
     
    Corporate tax rate in Norway is 28% last time I checked. Sweden 26%. America 35%. USA has a lower personal tax rate but the highest corporate tax rate, hardly a free market. 
     
    If we had a real free market the economy wouldn't only be growing it would be booming every year and we wouldn't be having all the booms and busts caused by the Federal Reserve and Congress.
     
    The world had 2 classes for thousands of years. Rich Royals, Politicians and Churchmen then there were the struggling masses. Then in 200 years of American free market the largest and richest middle class in the history of the world was created. But now that it is Socialist like the rest of the world the middle class is being wiped out and the friends of the politicians are getting much much richer and the poor are getting much much poorer. This will continue until freedom is restored and we have real money again. Not funny government fiat currency. We need the rules to be lifted from small businesses so that low income people can compete against the corporations that use the regulations to destroy their small competition. 
     
     
     
     

  52. What are the facts about Scandinavia according to you?These what I have learned and saw when I visited Sweden and Norway.
    1)No homeless people.
    2)Universal health insurance.
    3)Banks are regulated
    4)Progressive taxation
    5)40% of board of directors in the Norwegians companies are women
    6)women and men are paid half of their salaries to raised their kids for a year.
    and yet there are millionaries in those small countries.
      And of course,they never taught in your American history that "English" have slaves doing all the dirty work. --You just proved my point-A libertarian stuck in 1776.
       Please explain to me why most of the wealth of nation is been created in California?A state that have higher taxes and more regulations than the rest of the country.--
      These is the problem withl libertarians,they still stuck in Agragrian and Industrial Age when we are living in a knoweldge based economy.
       Please give specific examples like I have to defend your point if you can. 
     

  53. And of course,you forgot to mentioned that personal income tax for the top 1% is 15% or less while in Denmark is 60% and they don't have all the tax-loopholes created for the corporations.
     

  54.  @Enrique As far as Socialism goes, Norway probably is in the top 10 most desirable structures. Their health care is a lot better than most other Socialist Countries. I live in the UK, at my local hospitals you will wait at least 9 hours in a waiting room to get someone to see you. Then you may have to wait weeks to get treated if it is not too serious. Or if you want an operation it can take over 2 years if you are allowed it at all. 
     
    The NHS is a horrible place, and you are more likely to get sick just being in the hospitals. An average person will pay over £150k for the NHS over their lifetime through taxes. 
     
    The problem Libertarians have is that we no longer have any examples of the free market in healthcare. The governments meddle in every developed country. America having the worst of Socialism and the worst of Capitalism combined. We can only look at brief periods in time when there were free markets. Before the governments got involved in American health care prices were falling rapidly, quality was rising rapidly, it was more accessible and private than any other country in the world. The Scandinavian countries still get most of their technology and drugs from America because they were the most innovative. That is changing rapidly because of the FDA though. 
     
    Personally I am not a fan of being forced to by anything. I hate mandates. I want to decide for myself. Universal health care is a horrible use of force over people. I want to buy my products on the free market without any government intervention. 
     
    Progressive taxation is a sure way to discourage production. Punish the people who grow the economy and reward those who shrink the economy through consumption. Whatever is rewarded happens more, whatever is punished happens less. A tax is a punishment for success. 
     
    Don't care at all how many women or men work in a company. I do not want to do business with any company that overlooks the best person to meet a quota. If a man is the best qualified he should get the job no matter how many other men are in the company. It is sexist/ racist to refuse him a job based on his sex or white skin. Now racism/ sexism is wrong unless it is against white men. We need everyone to be treated as individuals not their groups. 
     
    Who pays the salaries for the women to raise children? The employer who is trying to take care of themselves and is now forced to look after someone elses child while they are not working? or the state? People who never have children are forced to pay for those who do? That is hardly a fair system. Again another horrible use of force and violation of private property. 
     
    The banking sector is the most regulated industry in America and look how that turned out. They only need to be regulated because of the moral hazard the government created by insuring bank accounts and mortgages. Then allowing fractional reserve banking. Taking the country off the gold standard so we now use worthless paper that can be created from nothing. Free market banking is self regulating. The banks will have 100% reserve so there will be no runs. Or they would have investment banks who lend out money for a set period of time and it cannot be claimed before that. Therefore banks would remain solvent and finally we could have deflation again, allowing poor people to save for retirement as their wages are more valuable each year. 
     
    You are good at pointing out the obvious seen benefits but seriously overlook the cost and consequences. For every benefit through government someone is left holding the bill for it or loses freedom. 

  55.  @Enrique Not sure where you are pulling your numbers from. The top tax rate in the US is over 60% when you total everything up. It looks like 15% because of the way people like Mitt Romney, Warren Buffet earn their income. But that is possible in Norway. They also have a lot of loopholes they are just not publicised as well as the US media does it. If you earn $10m per year in salary in New York you will pay around $6m of that to the Government just like in Norway. 35% federal, 9% state, 3% local, SS, medicare, property tax, sales tax, import tax, inflation and hundreds of other taxes that are hidden probably takes it over 60%. 

  56.  @Enrique Also give me 10 well paid workers over 10 slaves any day of the week and I will trump all the slave owners in profits. The North won the war because they were richer. The south lost because they could not compete and they had the slaves. Sorry but History is not on the Socialist Liberal side. They lose when the facts are presented every time. Hong Kong vs China. East Germany vs West Germany. North Korea vs South Korea. Free America vs the Rest of the world. Freedom always creates the most wealth for everyone. 

  57.  @WDavidC
     So,I am still waiting for an example where a libertarian philosophy is better than social democracies.  Maybe,Hong Kong?--freedom-and yet those countries like West Germany,South Korea and U.S. have regulated capitalism because it destroy itself.
     
     

  58.  @WDavidC
     Let's assume you are right-about 60% for all taxes in the U.S.--and yet the U.S has more billionaries than any other country.  Let's take the example of Mexico-where the richest person lives--Carlos Slim>Why is he the richest person in the world?because he has a monopoly in the telephone industry.--is that whay you mean by free markets?

  59.  @WDavidC
       the problem with the ibertarian mind is that they confused communist and totalitarian regimens with social democracies.  The economy is run by private companies in Scandinavia,the Netherelands and Germany.

  60.  @WDavidC
       I love how libertarian defined production--How about a teacher?A teacher in Finland makes $100,000 and out of the 500 slots,they have 5,000 apllications.  90% of the elementary teachers in the U.S. are women,why not make that a valuable,and well paid job?because that's not where males work.
       I guarantee you if society valued elementary teachers,and most were males,they will be getting raises and bonuses just like they do in corporations.

  61.  @Enrique Hey Enrique. Sorry Tried to reply sooner but I couldn't log in on my phone and just got my computer back. 
     
    Just wanted to throw in a point about Carlos Slim. I was curious as to how you feel he managed to create his monopoly in the Telephone industry in Mexico? How did he manage to keep out AT&T, Telephonica, Vodafone, Orange etc? How for so many years did none of these companies go into mexico and break his monopoly? Is it because he is providing such amazing service at such a low cost that no one could compete or did he use government to block any competition?
     
    I think your answer will quickly show why I love the free market and despise government intervention in the economy. 99% of Monopolies that have lasted over 5 years are propped up and protected by government while the small competition and the consumer is always sacrificed to support the monopoly. I challenge you to name 3 monopolies that lasted more than 5 years without government support or government over regulating small competition out of business. I have tried and not been able to find 3. Free markets destroy monopolies, governments create and protect them.
     
    Post Office, NHS, Schools, Universites, Big Pharma, Monsanto, Wall Street, Freddie and Fannie, Goldman Sachs etc.  

  62.  @Enrique  @WDavidC America was the closest example to the libertarian philosophy from 1800 - 1913. It was about 80-90% libertarian and created the largest and richest middle class ever seen. The reason capitalism always destroys itself is because free people allow free speech. Then the socialists move in and the free people let them discuss their ideas. Then the socialists decide that freedom isn't perfect so they group together and use force to get the things they want. 
     
    They legalise theft, force government money on people, regulate businesses out of business, put in minimum wages, set interest rates artificially, manipulate the money supply which creates booms and busts. Create moral hazards by insuring bank accounts and mortgages which allows over speculation. They create funny fiat money that allows fractional reserve banking and creates runs on the banks. They give special rules to some industries like banking, health care and schooling messing up price signals and creating malinvestment. They print money which creates inflation and wipes out the wages and savings of the middle class. They tax certain income classes which discourages them and subsidise others which wrongly encourages them. 
     
    They create monopolies and protect them then bail them out when they go bad. The list of Socialist polices that destroy capitalism is almost endless. Then capitalism gets the blame. 
     
    Every economic downturn in American history lasted 3-24months when they had gold backed money and government didn't get involved in fixing it. Then in 1927 the federal reserve lowered interest rates and increased money supply creating a stock market bubble, then when it burst in 29 the government created the biggest intervention in american history and the depression lasted 192 months. That is good evidence that free markets work and government mess the market up. 

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  • 104 comments on “Free Cheese”

    1. I understand what you're saying Gage. I believe that the system is being stretched beyond it's limits but one thing I do firmly believe is that everyone should be entitled to free healthcare.

      1.  @MehulShah health care (or any other good or service) may be provided at "no charge" to its recipients -- but there is no such thing as "Free" -- that's the point of the article -- reading is fundamental, no?

      2.  @MehulShah So just to clarify, are you saying that all doctors, nurses and medical staff have to work for free?  Can we also include prostitutes and massage therapists in that?  I think that would be nice.  And what if the nurses say that they think all babysitters should work for free?  How does all this work exactly?  -RG

        1.  @Randy_Gage  @MehulShah there is a word that describes the condition of being compelled to work for no, or unjust, compensation -- remember that word? begins with an "S" .....

          1. ah, I assume you mean "what is enough compensation"?  well, why would you not want a market of buyers and sellers to "make" those sorts of decisions? A little thing once known as Liberty!

        2.  @Randy_Gage I made no mention of doctors, nurses and medical staff having to work for free. What I am saying is that every American CITIZEN, regardless of their  social position or age should have access to a state managed, tax payer funded health care system (including access to hospitals and their GP, other services like opticians and dentists should be paid for). 
           
          Not everyone has developed the prosperity consciousness of you or I; does that mean that they are less worthy? I am not talking about Free Cheese as you put it. I firmly believe that these are basic rights: Healthcare and Education. 
           
          I was born and brought up in the UK. The product of a single parent household. Although my mother was working, if we would have had to pay for healthcare, I don't think it would have been financially viable. Much like Melissa, I also took a government student loan for my University education. If this option was not available I don't think it would have been able to study further. At some point the state does have to step in for the greater good. Better to spend taxpayers money on developing a healthcare system then on the recent wars.
           
          I am now living in Kenya, where there is a very dysfunctional healthcare system which is state funded to a very small limit. I see the effects of people from humble backgrounds having to pay for healthcare. It just doesn't work. 
           
          I as you, was poor, I wouldn't wish the lack of free healthcare on anyone in that situation. It also goes without saying that those under 18 and those over retirement age should have this completely free, period.

          1.  There is no "free lunch" ~ having said that when a society decides (through its political system) to provide healthcare, economic help to its citizens it then becomes the "will of the people" . democracy is flawed, but has proven to be better than, dictatorship, kings/queens, warlords etc.
             
            When we (as citizens) provide education, food support, basic security for all of the people we get (for our dollar) a stable society that occasionally creates the opportunity for people to grow and contribute ~ like Randy ~ which in turns lifts all of society. So although not perfect it does provide a return on dollars invested in (education, food support, security) and it costs money.
             
            While I defend the right of each person to build, grow and amass wealth, without a secure growing society in general, wealth becomes irrelevant ~ take look at Somalia, Africa ~ ruled by warlords, battling extremists, a society where the notion of goodwill, opportunity and equality has disappeared. Perhaps education is needed rather than extremism, if democracy fails, we all fail, Geoffrey
             
             

    2. I understand what you're saying Gage. I believe that the system is being stretched beyond it's limits but one thing I do firmly believe is that everyone should be entitled to free healthcare.

    3.  @MehulShah health care (or any other good or service) may be provided at "no charge" to its recipients -- but there is no such thing as "Free" -- that's the point of the article -- reading is fundamental, no?

    4. Hey Randy, having just visited family in Wisconsin, I'm sure you're familiar with the political tension going on here.  We have a governor hated by many for taking away thier free cheese - and at the same time admired and supported strongly by the producers for standing up against unconstitutional gov't handouts.  A classic case of moochers vs. producers.  If the moochers get their way, the producers will simply leave.  That is an ugly death spiral we do not want to create.

      1. @WessRipley It's already being created on a larger scale by the federal government. Gte more and more people dependent on government handouts so you can create that dependent class. It's growing in the U.S. daily.

    5. Hey Randy, having just visited family in Wisconsin, I'm sure you're familiar with the political tension going on here.  We have a governor hated by many for taking away thier free cheese - and at the same time admired and supported strongly by the producers for standing up against unconstitutional gov't handouts.  A classic case of moochers vs. producers.  If the moochers get their way, the producers will simply leave.  That is an ugly death spiral we do not want to create.

    6. I'm somewhat in the middle on this, this total Libertarian view that everything done by private enterprise is better than government is complete bullshit... the U.S. spends the most on health care and it's system is ranked like 37th in the world in terms of results..
      On the other hand you can't make tax so onerous, like Britain in the 60's where they taxed 90% and drove any sane rich person away from their shores...
      I tend to side with Stephen King an author who came from dirt poor poverty,  worked his ass off, donates millions to charities that he cares about, but still came out a month ago in a column for Slate, Huffpost, Salon, can't remember one of those that I subscribe, and said, raise my fucking taxes!

      1.  @napadavid argument by assertion, followed by an Appeal to Authority fallacy -- LOL! 37th ranking is preposterous -- look at how those data were interpreted -- things like infant mortality in the US are measured if a child does not survive beyond its 6th month -- in the "comparatives" that "result" in the US being ranked 37th, those data are compared to "systems" where infant mortality is only counted in the first 48 hours -- but those looking to repeat nonsensical talking points seldom look that deep and I don't expect you to do so. Government is not intrinsically evil -- but its incentives are not often aligned with anything other than hope in the angelic character of its operators -- where do we, or will we in future, find such angels?

      2. @napadavid I love it when idiots come out publicly crying for the government to raise their taxes. Why don't they just out their money where their mouth is and send in more themselves? Nobody is stopping or penalizing them from doing that.

      3. @napadavid
        The reason the US healthcare sucks so badly and is so expensive is because the government has it's filthy mitts all over it. The FDA is run by Monsanto who outlaws any safe and natural drug and passes chemical addictive drugs. Because of the FDA natural remedies are forced to pay huge sums to get to market, up to $100m at times. All the special interest groups use government to regulate and tax their competition out of business. Licences block competition in health care giving doctors artificially high wages. 
         
        The government has a monopoly on Medical Training. Doctors are taking 10 years to get educated when for most problems it is completely unnecessary. A good nutritionist or first aider could fix a large amount of the problems. There are laws blocking safe drugs sold in most other countries. 
         
        You cannot buy insurance over state lines. Employers are forced to buy insurance for their employees which then pushes up all medical costs because no one looks at the prices, they just pay everything on their insurance. In most areas you cannot even find the price. Not to mention the Federal Reserve printing so much money that the savings and wages of the middle class and poor are being wiped out. While the prices are rising rapidly due to inflation. 
         
        I could go on with a huge list of government intervention but I think you get the idea. America is not even close to the free market. If it was prices would be at most 1/5 of the price it is now. 

        1.  @WDavidC
           and the bailout worked for the car companies-thousands of Americans are working and the U.S. automobile is prospering.  They are even paying the loans back.

    7. I'm somewhat in the middle on this, this total Libertarian view that everything done by private enterprise is better than government is complete bullshit... the U.S. spends the most on health care and it's system is ranked like 37th in the world in terms of results..
      On the other hand you can't make tax so onerous, like Britain in the 60's where they taxed 90% and drove any sane rich person away from their shores...
      I tend to side with Stephen King an author who came from dirt poor poverty,  worked his ass off, donates millions to charities that he cares about, but still came out a month ago in a column for Slate, Huffpost, Salon, can't remember one of those that I subscribe, and said, raise my fucking taxes!

    8. So,if so many people are thinking "entitlement', where do we begin to change? So there is no misunderstanding, I agree totally Randy.

    9. So,if so many people are thinking "entitlement', where do we begin to change? So there is no misunderstanding, I agree totally Randy.

    10.  @MehulShah So just to clarify, are you saying that all doctors, nurses and medical staff have to work for free?  Can we also include prostitutes and massage therapists in that?  I think that would be nice.  And what if the nurses say that they think all babysitters should work for free?  How does all this work exactly?  -RG

    11.  @napadavid argument by assertion, followed by an Appeal to Authority fallacy -- LOL! 37th ranking is preposterous -- look at how those data were interpreted -- things like infant mortality in the US are measured if a child does not survive beyond its 6th month -- in the "comparatives" that "result" in the US being ranked 37th, those data are compared to "systems" where infant mortality is only counted in the first 48 hours -- but those looking to repeat nonsensical talking points seldom look that deep and I don't expect you to do so. Government is not intrinsically evil -- but its incentives are not often aligned with anything other than hope in the angelic character of its operators -- where do we, or will we in future, find such angels?

    12.  @Randy_Gage  @MehulShah there is a word that describes the condition of being compelled to work for no, or unjust, compensation -- remember that word? begins with an "S" .....

    13. Of course i adore this post!
       
      I was born into "no dinner, no linen, and roaches infested home type of poverty". As a child my family received government assistance. After joining a network marketing company i "met" Randy Gage and fell in love with the idea of prosperity. After reading, listening, and learning, I decided to go after my dream. I went to school received my high school diploma and Bachelors degree. Both were paid for by the government. I am currently in grad school that I am paying for myself and between working and practicing the laws of prosperity I can finally afford to live without handouts. However, the rest of my 8 siblings, yes I wrote EIGHT, are all still receiving government assistance.
       
      So, what's the difference?
       
      I had my appetite moistened to something bigger than me. I learned concepts that gave my childhood dreams a new boost.  I do not own a TV and work hard on guarding my prosperity consciousness. All the handouts in the world could not have given me the energy to get up and go daily and practice the laws of prosperity-it was connecting to people, websites, and speakers that focus on something greater, that kept me inspired. HOWEVER, it was the handouts that insured that my family had some food to eat and a roof over our heads while we were kids.
      This is not a one or the other issues. This is not black and white. To me, there is a time and place for each. Children should always be protected-call it handouts if you must- and able adults should be given support to go after their passions and dreams. And of course, without a prosperity consciousness, even giving finances will not help an adult get out of a life of poverty...

    14. Of course i adore this post!
       
      I was born into "no dinner, no linen, and roaches infested home type of poverty". As a child my family received government assistance. After joining a network marketing company i "met" Randy Gage and fell in love with the idea of prosperity. After reading, listening, and learning, I decided to go after my dream. I went to school received my high school diploma and Bachelors degree. Both were paid for by the government. I am currently in grad school that I am paying for myself and between working and practicing the laws of prosperity I can finally afford to live without handouts. However, the rest of my 8 siblings, yes I wrote EIGHT, are all still receiving government assistance.
       
      So, what's the difference?
       
      I had my appetite moistened to something bigger than me. I learned concepts that gave my childhood dreams a new boost.  I do not own a TV and work hard on guarding my prosperity consciousness. All the handouts in the world could not have given me the energy to get up and go daily and practice the laws of prosperity-it was connecting to people, websites, and speakers that focus on something greater, that kept me inspired. HOWEVER, it was the handouts that insured that my family had some food to eat and a roof over our heads while we were kids.
      This is not a one or the other issues. This is not black and white. To me, there is a time and place for each. Children should always be protected-call it handouts if you must- and able adults should be given support to go after their passions and dreams. And of course, without a prosperity consciousness, even giving finances will not help an adult get out of a life of poverty...

    15. ah, I assume you mean "what is enough compensation"?  well, why would you not want a market of buyers and sellers to "make" those sorts of decisions? A little thing once known as Liberty!

          1.  @million dollar
             Just that we have to care, because otherwise huge decisions are made without our input that can affect our lives in big ways
             

    16.  @Randy_Gage I made no mention of doctors, nurses and medical staff having to work for free. What I am saying is that every American CITIZEN, regardless of their  social position or age should have access to a state managed, tax payer funded health care system (including access to hospitals and their GP, other services like opticians and dentists should be paid for). 
       
      Not everyone has developed the prosperity consciousness of you or I; does that mean that they are less worthy? I am not talking about Free Cheese as you put it. I firmly believe that these are basic rights: Healthcare and Education. 
       
      I was born and brought up in the UK. The product of a single parent household. Although my mother was working, if we would have had to pay for healthcare, I don't think it would have been financially viable. Much like Melissa, I also took a government student loan for my University education. If this option was not available I don't think it would have been able to study further. At some point the state does have to step in for the greater good. Better to spend taxpayers money on developing a healthcare system then on the recent wars.
       
      I am now living in Kenya, where there is a very dysfunctional healthcare system which is state funded to a very small limit. I see the effects of people from humble backgrounds having to pay for healthcare. It just doesn't work. 
       
      I as you, was poor, I wouldn't wish the lack of free healthcare on anyone in that situation. It also goes without saying that those under 18 and those over retirement age should have this completely free, period.

    17. true true true! interesting enough how people have become sure that their first "debtor" is a government, and how the governments use that to make them its debtors.. especially it is so obvious in Greece nowadays...people, wake up.

    18. true true true! interesting enough how people have become sure that their first "debtor" is a government, and how the governments use that to make them its debtors.. especially it is so obvious in Greece nowadays...people, wake up.

    19. I agree it's not all black and white, but as to where do we start, that's an easy question.  We need to stop making rules/laws that treat our citizens like 3 yr olds and start treating them/us like teens preparing to be good, conscionable adults .  Don't just punish the bad behavior, but reward the good.  Encourage, don't control.  Make a fairer tax system, including taxing welfare.  Raise the amount by 10% then tax it at 10%.  Those who are on assistance will feel more like a productive member of society and realize that they have "skin in the game".  Reward success, don't demonize it.  We have heard so many times these past 3+ years that an income of $250,000 is "rich" that I'm sure more than one glass ceiling has been erected at a lower point than it might have been.  Remind government workers that they are paid by their neighbors, parents, and children and that it is called civil SERVICE.  Instill respect and value in personal production.  For too long people have been taught to "get a job".  Then the union mentality and the concept of tenure rewards time spent over quality of work.  Remove retirement as a goal.  Successful people don't retire because they enjoy and see value in what they do.  Return the social safety nets to being just that, safety nets.  Social Security was never meant to be a retirement plan, and few were ever supposed to collect it.  And reform unemployment.  Instead of a set amount at a percentage of your earnings for a finite amount of time, it should be a steady decreasing amount by a certain percentage for however long it takes.  People adjust to living on a lower "wage" but would be more apt to actually look for work if that amount kept getting cut by %10 every four weeks.

    20. I agree it's not all black and white, but as to where do we start, that's an easy question.  We need to stop making rules/laws that treat our citizens like 3 yr olds and start treating them/us like teens preparing to be good, conscionable adults .  Don't just punish the bad behavior, but reward the good.  Encourage, don't control.  Make a fairer tax system, including taxing welfare.  Raise the amount by 10% then tax it at 10%.  Those who are on assistance will feel more like a productive member of society and realize that they have "skin in the game".  Reward success, don't demonize it.  We have heard so many times these past 3+ years that an income of $250,000 is "rich" that I'm sure more than one glass ceiling has been erected at a lower point than it might have been.  Remind government workers that they are paid by their neighbors, parents, and children and that it is called civil SERVICE.  Instill respect and value in personal production.  For too long people have been taught to "get a job".  Then the union mentality and the concept of tenure rewards time spent over quality of work.  Remove retirement as a goal.  Successful people don't retire because they enjoy and see value in what they do.  Return the social safety nets to being just that, safety nets.  Social Security was never meant to be a retirement plan, and few were ever supposed to collect it.  And reform unemployment.  Instead of a set amount at a percentage of your earnings for a finite amount of time, it should be a steady decreasing amount by a certain percentage for however long it takes.  People adjust to living on a lower "wage" but would be more apt to actually look for work if that amount kept getting cut by %10 every four weeks.

    21. @napadavid I love it when idiots come out publicly crying for the government to raise their taxes. Why don't they just out their money where their mouth is and send in more themselves? Nobody is stopping or penalizing them from doing that.

    22.  There is no "free lunch" ~ having said that when a society decides (through its political system) to provide healthcare, economic help to its citizens it then becomes the "will of the people" . democracy is flawed, but has proven to be better than, dictatorship, kings/queens, warlords etc.
       
      When we (as citizens) provide education, food support, basic security for all of the people we get (for our dollar) a stable society that occasionally creates the opportunity for people to grow and contribute ~ like Randy ~ which in turns lifts all of society. So although not perfect it does provide a return on dollars invested in (education, food support, security) and it costs money.
       
      While I defend the right of each person to build, grow and amass wealth, without a secure growing society in general, wealth becomes irrelevant ~ take look at Somalia, Africa ~ ruled by warlords, battling extremists, a society where the notion of goodwill, opportunity and equality has disappeared. Perhaps education is needed rather than extremism, if democracy fails, we all fail, Geoffrey
       
       

    23. @WessRipley It's already being created on a larger scale by the federal government. Gte more and more people dependent on government handouts so you can create that dependent class. It's growing in the U.S. daily.

    24.  Thanks for this, Randy. I agree with you...as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm a self-employed U.S. expat who resides in Canada, so I can see both sides. The Government is viewed as a noun in the states and a money-grabbing, ill-managed one at that. I tend to agree.    
           In Canada, the Government is viewed as the collective conscious of all. Not in a scary, Borg way. It's just that Canadians feel more of a sense of control over how Government money is spent. Because they pay taxes--a LOT of taxes--they watch over every last dime. And they want that money spent on things they feel help their citizens, like health care and employment insurance. They think it's their duty as a civilized society.      
           Because of how the elected Government is structured, politicians get their butts kicked out fast if that money is mismanaged. We should do that more in the states.      
           But...I don't think socialized anything works in American culture. Our American view is that the rights of the individual trump all. In Canada--and I think in a lot of Scandinavian countries--the greater common good is considered first.     
           Meanwhile, I'll stay here. I live a pretty damn good life.

    25.  Thanks for this, Randy. I agree with you...as far as the U.S. is concerned. I'm a self-employed U.S. expat who resides in Canada, so I can see both sides. The Government is viewed as a noun in the states and a money-grabbing, ill-managed one at that. I tend to agree.    
           In Canada, the Government is viewed as the collective conscious of all. Not in a scary, Borg way. It's just that Canadians feel more of a sense of control over how Government money is spent. Because they pay taxes--a LOT of taxes--they watch over every last dime. And they want that money spent on things they feel help their citizens, like health care and employment insurance. They think it's their duty as a civilized society.      
           Because of how the elected Government is structured, politicians get their butts kicked out fast if that money is mismanaged. We should do that more in the states.      
           But...I don't think socialized anything works in American culture. Our American view is that the rights of the individual trump all. In Canada--and I think in a lot of Scandinavian countries--the greater common good is considered first.     
           Meanwhile, I'll stay here. I live a pretty damn good life.

    26. Great topic here, Randy. Growing up, my mother, brothers and I were receivers of government assistance. I didn't understand the pros and cons that much back then, but I did know that the life I lived growing up would not be the one I would allow for myself as an adult. However, about 3 years ago, my life took a turn when I was laid off. My partner-in-life and I were looking at foreclosure, and at the time I thought that government assistance would help us out a bit. I also knew that I had contributed my tax dollars to the pot  for years; so I figured, it was the least the government could do. I was only on it for 6 months and they started asking questions about my partner-in-life's income. He's in banking and real estate - so neither of us wanted to give up his information. Nor did we think we should have too. In my eyes, if I didn't have the right to marry the man who has encouraged me to better myself, and who also would encouraged me to break-free of  my self-limiting beliefs about my abilities to become a writer - then certainly the government didn't have the right to ask me about how much he earned. "The nerve", I thought. It was very easy for me to tell them where they could put that assistance, when it came time to "renew my contract to get free cheese." Quite frankly, I didn't want it in the first place... it was more of a need. As soon as, I let it go though, I was able to get a strategy and a game plan that continues to grow and make room for me - making it my own way. Thanks for the sharpening, RG! 🙂 

    27. Great topic here, Randy. Growing up, my mother, brothers and I were receivers of government assistance. I didn't understand the pros and cons that much back then, but I did know that the life I lived growing up would not be the one I would allow for myself as an adult. However, about 3 years ago, my life took a turn when I was laid off. My partner-in-life and I were looking at foreclosure, and at the time I thought that government assistance would help us out a bit. I also knew that I had contributed my tax dollars to the pot  for years; so I figured, it was the least the government could do. I was only on it for 6 months and they started asking questions about my partner-in-life's income. He's in banking and real estate - so neither of us wanted to give up his information. Nor did we think we should have too. In my eyes, if I didn't have the right to marry the man who has encouraged me to better myself, and who also would encouraged me to break-free of  my self-limiting beliefs about my abilities to become a writer - then certainly the government didn't have the right to ask me about how much he earned. "The nerve", I thought. It was very easy for me to tell them where they could put that assistance, when it came time to "renew my contract to get free cheese." Quite frankly, I didn't want it in the first place... it was more of a need. As soon as, I let it go though, I was able to get a strategy and a game plan that continues to grow and make room for me - making it my own way. Thanks for the sharpening, RG! 🙂 

    28. @napadavid
      The reason the US healthcare sucks so badly and is so expensive is because the government has it's filthy mitts all over it. The FDA is run by Monsanto who outlaws any safe and natural drug and passes chemical addictive drugs. Because of the FDA natural remedies are forced to pay huge sums to get to market, up to $100m at times. All the special interest groups use government to regulate and tax their competition out of business. Licences block competition in health care giving doctors artificially high wages. 
       
      The government has a monopoly on Medical Training. Doctors are taking 10 years to get educated when for most problems it is completely unnecessary. A good nutritionist or first aider could fix a large amount of the problems. There are laws blocking safe drugs sold in most other countries. 
       
      You cannot buy insurance over state lines. Employers are forced to buy insurance for their employees which then pushes up all medical costs because no one looks at the prices, they just pay everything on their insurance. In most areas you cannot even find the price. Not to mention the Federal Reserve printing so much money that the savings and wages of the middle class and poor are being wiped out. While the prices are rising rapidly due to inflation. 
       
      I could go on with a huge list of government intervention but I think you get the idea. America is not even close to the free market. If it was prices would be at most 1/5 of the price it is now. 

    29.  @million dollar
       Just that we have to care, because otherwise huge decisions are made without our input that can affect our lives in big ways
       

    30. this is very true.You in a the good old USA are witnessing socialism creep into yr society .Living in Canada we see this to a greater extent.I don't think its a big deal yr Government doesn't control your destiny .YOU DO!!!!!!

    31. this is very true.You in a the good old USA are witnessing socialism creep into yr society .Living in Canada we see this to a greater extent.I don't think its a big deal yr Government doesn't control your destiny .YOU DO!!!!!!

    32. let me add this...If you can't govern yourself someone else will.there is an increased need in America for Government to get involved.People are loosing faith and looking else where more often for the help they need.TRUE help comes from within.Freedom comes with a responsibility to serve others .There is no better time then Now to live Rich and Inspire others to BE the person they where born to Be.You are Rich can you believe it!!

    33. let me add this...If you can't govern yourself someone else will.there is an increased need in America for Government to get involved.People are loosing faith and looking else where more often for the help they need.TRUE help comes from within.Freedom comes with a responsibility to serve others .There is no better time then Now to live Rich and Inspire others to BE the person they where born to Be.You are Rich can you believe it!!

    34. Wow, great topic for discussion Randy. I believe in our lifetime that the Government's role will be greatly reduced and the power will return back to State's and more importantly, local, private sector power.
       
      The sense of entitlement across the board is out of control in the U.S. I may have to write a post on my blog to clarify it more.

    35. Wow, great topic for discussion Randy. I believe in our lifetime that the Government's role will be greatly reduced and the power will return back to State's and more importantly, local, private sector power.
       
      The sense of entitlement across the board is out of control in the U.S. I may have to write a post on my blog to clarify it more.

    36. Thanks for addressing the issue Randy.  I really don't want to argue though, but I will.  I have lots I would like to say about your post....
       
      Oh Randy, you big Randy, I just don't like disharmony believe it or not.  I know I started this one.  I am pretty sure you and most the others here know how I feel already.
       
      Let's all get along.  Is there a middle ground?  There is truth and untruth here, opinions, theories, and facts.  There are lots of problems with the government today and lots of problems in society.  Maybe it is better to focus on what works.
       
      I like to hear yours and others opinions, because it is not the way I see things, so it gives me something to think about.  Sometimes, it changes my mind in little ways, and sometimes it strengthens my already held beliefs.
       
      I know this, whether I agree with you or not, and even when I think your being just plain crazy Randy, I still like you.
       
      Anyway, I never knew that quote from Thomas Jefferson.  I will think about it.  It's funny though, because those men said things like that back then and yet owned slaves.  Crazy.
       
      Anyway, I don't think the rich get soaked so much.  I mean do they really?  It seems like it is usually my group, the middle class that takes the hit and pays for many of these programs.  I am alright with it though.  I like having good public schools, and nice libraries, and police and firefighters......... 
       
      Government helps society function, it also causes some dysfunction.  Why?  Because the government is comprised of people, it's us, people like you and me.  So, just like humanity it has flaws and strengths.
       
      Randy, not that I am sure you really believe doctors and nurses and other medical professionals won't get paid if there is some kind of larger public health care system, don't worry.  Public schools are free and the staff gets paid, Libraries are free, and the staff gets paid.  There are already free clinics in most urban places, the people who work there get paid. They will get paid.  And I hope it will be well. 
       
      Remember we are all in this together.  WE THE PEOPLE.  🙂
       
      Hope you are having fun writing in Key West.
       
      Annie
       
       
       

    37. Thanks for addressing the issue Randy.  I really don't want to argue though, but I will.  I have lots I would like to say about your post....
       
      Oh Randy, you big Randy, I just don't like disharmony believe it or not.  I know I started this one.  I am pretty sure you and most the others here know how I feel already.
       
      Let's all get along.  Is there a middle ground?  There is truth and untruth here, opinions, theories, and facts.  There are lots of problems with the government today and lots of problems in society.  Maybe it is better to focus on what works.
       
      I like to hear yours and others opinions, because it is not the way I see things, so it gives me something to think about.  Sometimes, it changes my mind in little ways, and sometimes it strengthens my already held beliefs.
       
      I know this, whether I agree with you or not, and even when I think your being just plain crazy Randy, I still like you.
       
      Anyway, I never knew that quote from Thomas Jefferson.  I will think about it.  It's funny though, because those men said things like that back then and yet owned slaves.  Crazy.
       
      Anyway, I don't think the rich get soaked so much.  I mean do they really?  It seems like it is usually my group, the middle class that takes the hit and pays for many of these programs.  I am alright with it though.  I like having good public schools, and nice libraries, and police and firefighters......... 
       
      Government helps society function, it also causes some dysfunction.  Why?  Because the government is comprised of people, it's us, people like you and me.  So, just like humanity it has flaws and strengths.
       
      Randy, not that I am sure you really believe doctors and nurses and other medical professionals won't get paid if there is some kind of larger public health care system, don't worry.  Public schools are free and the staff gets paid, Libraries are free, and the staff gets paid.  There are already free clinics in most urban places, the people who work there get paid. They will get paid.  And I hope it will be well. 
       
      Remember we are all in this together.  WE THE PEOPLE.  🙂
       
      Hope you are having fun writing in Key West.
       
      Annie
       
       
       

    38. My Dad told me I will always be entitled to a good, swift kick in the ass. What he was telling me that I have to go out and earn things myself.

    39. My Dad told me I will always be entitled to a good, swift kick in the ass. What he was telling me that I have to go out and earn things myself.

    40. Many thoughts, Randy!
      No, I won´t place them ALL down, but a few! 🙂
       
      What you describe in your post pretty much meets what´s up in Germany. See, our Government took over a lot to take care of, after WWII, to get them all back on their feet. It was a tough time and challengign task and everyone needed and wanted a job.
      Now, that baby boomers soon are gone from the work stage (some already via unemployment) but soon rule the old generation in our country, the flipside gets up: more people in the stage of NEED (retirement, health care raises, free time, more entertaining...), and just a few (compared) who have to cover it.
      How?
      Nobody knows.
      Retired people are being asked lready to work for free and support the young ones. Where shall all the money come from for the retirement of the baby boomers? I don´t know. there is no concept. Research showed: there was never in history such a generation-issue for any country in the world like this - so - there´s no answer. The strong system will flip. It was made for the big race, the job-run but not for retiring.
      Not everything was covered by the Governement in the long run, just for starrting in the 50´s and 60´s, but since 20 years or even longer, e.g. sport arenas/city halls and small hospitals here and there were built by private sectors and they made a lot of money with it, running it. Not eveyone made it via a long and hard production of he product "x" in our country. 
      In the meantime disabled people automatically have to retire. I own such a "pass"/paper since more than 40 years and now that I am back in a new job on the lower income-level after being unemployed for 10 months, I wasn´t being offered a contract as a disabled.
      No. They gave me the 5 days extra on the vacation account but not officially in the contract. 5 days - it is what the Governments gives "us" for working hard full-time, supporting "healthy" people which are mentally less stronger, as "disabled" ones, but officially the contract doesn´t state it anymore. Over and out. The benefit of leaving 2 years earlier into retirement with no cut of the salary is deleted. 
      Means: either way your healthy & fine (which I am in-officially and right now) or your out and retired.
      Black OR White.
      A system build on logic: the Zero fault principle, either you have/are a fault or you´re not.
       
      So what about the future and who shall support the on-going needs of the folks in each country?
      I think it is worth & necessary to discuss and deeply think about, maybe not on your BLOG post stage - but some where!
       
      Randy, why don´t you start your Prosperity TV Show (any offers yet?) and use that potential new stage for leading future tasks onto an action stage? 
      --> great discussion already here....
      🙂
       
       
       

    41. Many thoughts, Randy!
      No, I won´t place them ALL down, but a few! 🙂
       
      What you describe in your post pretty much meets what´s up in Germany. See, our Government took over a lot to take care of, after WWII, to get them all back on their feet. It was a tough time and challengign task and everyone needed and wanted a job.
      Now, that baby boomers soon are gone from the work stage (some already via unemployment) but soon rule the old generation in our country, the flipside gets up: more people in the stage of NEED (retirement, health care raises, free time, more entertaining...), and just a few (compared) who have to cover it.
      How?
      Nobody knows.
      Retired people are being asked lready to work for free and support the young ones. Where shall all the money come from for the retirement of the baby boomers? I don´t know. there is no concept. Research showed: there was never in history such a generation-issue for any country in the world like this - so - there´s no answer. The strong system will flip. It was made for the big race, the job-run but not for retiring.
      Not everything was covered by the Governement in the long run, just for starrting in the 50´s and 60´s, but since 20 years or even longer, e.g. sport arenas/city halls and small hospitals here and there were built by private sectors and they made a lot of money with it, running it. Not eveyone made it via a long and hard production of he product "x" in our country. 
      In the meantime disabled people automatically have to retire. I own such a "pass"/paper since more than 40 years and now that I am back in a new job on the lower income-level after being unemployed for 10 months, I wasn´t being offered a contract as a disabled.
      No. They gave me the 5 days extra on the vacation account but not officially in the contract. 5 days - it is what the Governments gives "us" for working hard full-time, supporting "healthy" people which are mentally less stronger, as "disabled" ones, but officially the contract doesn´t state it anymore. Over and out. The benefit of leaving 2 years earlier into retirement with no cut of the salary is deleted. 
      Means: either way your healthy & fine (which I am in-officially and right now) or your out and retired.
      Black OR White.
      A system build on logic: the Zero fault principle, either you have/are a fault or you´re not.
       
      So what about the future and who shall support the on-going needs of the folks in each country?
      I think it is worth & necessary to discuss and deeply think about, maybe not on your BLOG post stage - but some where!
       
      Randy, why don´t you start your Prosperity TV Show (any offers yet?) and use that potential new stage for leading future tasks onto an action stage? 
      --> great discussion already here....
      🙂
       
       
       

    42. The tricky about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
       
      One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I happen to think it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
       
      I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. I had the opportunity of attending one of the best private schools in Melbourne and when I compare my education to the young kids leaving public schools today, I think it's disgraceful. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. Other people my age that went to public schools don't have the same literary or numeracy skills that I acquired and I honestly think that they're at a disadvantage when we're pitted against each other in a job interview situation. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's in their geographical boundaries. The good schools would be overwhelmed and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.

    43. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
       
      One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I happen to think it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
       
      I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. I had the opportunity of attending one of the best private schools in Melbourne and when I compare my education to the young kids leaving public schools today, I think it's disgraceful. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. Other people my age that went to public schools don't have the same literary or numeracy skills that I acquired and I honestly think that they're at a disadvantage when we're pitted against each other in a job interview situation. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's in their geographical boundaries. The good schools would be overwhelmed and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
       

    44. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
       
      One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I think that it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
       
      I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. When I look at the education young kids leaving public schools receive today, I think it's a disgrace. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's inside their geographical boundary. The good schools would be overwhelmed, hopefully paying the good teachers better, and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
       

    45. The tricky thing about this subject is how you go about change. Beliefs, like entitlement, are so deeply ingrained in society. Occasionally these things collapse, like communism did, but it takes a long time for the people's thinking to change.
       
      One thing that I find unfortunate about government is inefficiency. Example abound, whether it's the New York city ice rink and Donald Trump or my local tollway (road). This is a private road and I think that it's the best one in the whole of Melbourne. Yes, I have to pay to use it, but the surface is A1, the lanes are wide enough, there are enough lanes and the traffic flows well. It's an absolute joy to drive on.
       
      I would love to see a system where we're all responsible for ourselves and have charities pick up the legitimately down and out. I'd much rather give the dollars I current pay in direct and indirect taxes to efficient, private organisations than government, whether that be education, healthcare or roads. Although I have in the past thought it best if government provide education for everyone so that we all have the opportunity in our early childhood, when we're not grown up enough to make smart choices or have the economic resources necessary, to at least have a decent education. But the current system is failing children. When I look at the education young kids leaving public schools receive today, I think it's a disgrace. Some of the worst ones can't write a proper sentence. If government were to continue funding public education, I would rather see a system that allows parents and students to spend their education allowance at the school of their choice rather than the one that's inside their geographical boundary. The good schools would be overwhelmed, hopefully paying the good teachers better, and the dreadful ones would go out of 'business', just the way it should be.
       

    46.    Well,your issues are very vague about big goverment--another attempt at your libertarian ideology but no facts to back your beliefs in an economic systems for the 21th century.  Since you mentioned,that this will part of your book,I will to see the facts before commenting.
          When Libertarians,Repubicans and conservatives talk about Europe,they never mentioned the Scandinavian Model because it doesn't fit their ideology.  In fact,reality clashes with their ideology.  Norwegians pay the second highest taxes in the world and yet they have a $600 billion surplus.
         Hopefully,you will finally defined your political terms before a debate can happenned.
        As for social security--which by the way has run a surplus since its inception,and medicared-everyone has paid into the system.
         I wonder how you feel about the CEO giving themselves millions in compensations while they bankrupted the companies-the most agregrious examples have been the five largest banks in the U.S.

      1. The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology. The problem is that America does not. People still have the idea that America is an example of free market Capitalism, but it hasn't been since 1912. It is a perfect model of corruption and special interest groups screwing everyone for their own gain through the government. It is also a model of war mongering at a level that has never been seen before. The Americans have probably killed at least 30m people in the last 100 years. That is part of the reason why they are in so much debt
         
        Scandinavia does most things much much better than America because at least their government programs are actually designed to help poor people. It does it much worse than the free market would do it though. In America the poverty programs are designed to help the lobbyists.
         
        America has the highest corporation tax in the world. Citizens of America pay tax on income not even earned in America. Many are actually paying over 60% of their income to the government when you add all the hidden taxes. The Federal Reserve is wiping out the middle class with huge inflation. Average people can no longer work and save their way to wealth, almost everyone has to be an investor, or business owner to get wealthy.
         
        In the old America products got cheaper every year. Savings were more valuable every year. People could put away 10% of what they earn and be rich in Retirement. Now if you put away 10% in Dollars you will have almost nothing in retirement. Inflation is running at about 10% if you use the 1970 CPI calculation, not the new manipulated one to help hide the inflation.
         
        On the Bailouts point you made below, Of course they worked. When a thief robs a bank he does very well from it. That is obvious. In a free market they would have gone bust and another company would have bought the good assets and then the company would have been successful long term. Now they will be back for another bailout in less than 5 years. Guaranteed!!!! Because the company did not fix the problems
         
         
        Also, It is foolish to use Republicans and libertarians in the same example because they are almost exactly opposite.Republicans and democrats are almost identical. More war, more spending, more debt, more inflation, more programs, more inflation, more restrictions, more laws, continue the drug wars, IRS, Federal Reserve, NAFTA, U.N, internet regulation etc etc. Libertarians are for less or none of all the above.
         
         

        1.  @WDavidCz
           The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology.  So,please defined what you mean by Libertarian.  As a I have studied history,Libertarian wanted less goverment and the "invisible hand" of the market would balanced supply and demand. 
              Libertarians don't believe in Social Security,Medicared,the EPA,the Federal Reserved and so on.
             Maybe,Randy,will defined how he defined Libertarian--maybe it is different of the policial social history of the 18th century in France since that's where it originated.
             Mitt Rommey pay at a 15% tax bracket.  Why hasn't he released his income tax because they are moving the money from the tax havens in Bermudas.
             Danes pay the highest taxes in the world and their economy is growing.--let's say compared them to Mexico where the richest person lives and 1/2 of the population makes $800.00 per month.

          1.  @Enrique  @WDavidCz You said libertarians never mention Scandinavia because it does not fit their ideology. I was not saying that Scandinavian was libertarian, I was saying that it perfectly backs up the libertarian view of the world when we actually know the facts and not the propaganda.
             
            The people who praise Scandinavia so highly are generally people who have never actually lived there. They look at statistics and base their view on that and then compare it with America (the so called beacon of small government and capitalism, laughing as I type this because they are the opposite of that). 
             
            It seems great compared to the corruption capital of the western world (USA) or other Socialist European countries like Spain, Greece, Romania, UK etc. But it is far far off being the best way to live. 
             
            What is wrong with Moving money to tax havens? America was founded by people who wanted to avoid tax. Avoiding tax and people taking care of themselves is the most American thing a person can do. I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be looking down thinking - "if only people would be more patriotic and pay more taxes!" He would be rolling in his grave at the thought of the taxes and rules imposed on the American People. 
             
            Corporate tax rate in Norway is 28% last time I checked. Sweden 26%. America 35%. USA has a lower personal tax rate but the highest corporate tax rate, hardly a free market. 
             
            If we had a real free market the economy wouldn't only be growing it would be booming every year and we wouldn't be having all the booms and busts caused by the Federal Reserve and Congress.
             
            The world had 2 classes for thousands of years. Rich Royals, Politicians and Churchmen then there were the struggling masses. Then in 200 years of American free market the largest and richest middle class in the history of the world was created. But now that it is Socialist like the rest of the world the middle class is being wiped out and the friends of the politicians are getting much much richer and the poor are getting much much poorer. This will continue until freedom is restored and we have real money again. Not funny government fiat currency. We need the rules to be lifted from small businesses so that low income people can compete against the corporations that use the regulations to destroy their small competition. 
             
             
             
             

          2. What are the facts about Scandinavia according to you?These what I have learned and saw when I visited Sweden and Norway.
            1)No homeless people.
            2)Universal health insurance.
            3)Banks are regulated
            4)Progressive taxation
            5)40% of board of directors in the Norwegians companies are women
            6)women and men are paid half of their salaries to raised their kids for a year.
            and yet there are millionaries in those small countries.
              And of course,they never taught in your American history that "English" have slaves doing all the dirty work. --You just proved my point-A libertarian stuck in 1776.
               Please explain to me why most of the wealth of nation is been created in California?A state that have higher taxes and more regulations than the rest of the country.--
              These is the problem withl libertarians,they still stuck in Agragrian and Industrial Age when we are living in a knoweldge based economy.
               Please give specific examples like I have to defend your point if you can. 
             

          3. And of course,you forgot to mentioned that personal income tax for the top 1% is 15% or less while in Denmark is 60% and they don't have all the tax-loopholes created for the corporations.
             

          4.  @Enrique As far as Socialism goes, Norway probably is in the top 10 most desirable structures. Their health care is a lot better than most other Socialist Countries. I live in the UK, at my local hospitals you will wait at least 9 hours in a waiting room to get someone to see you. Then you may have to wait weeks to get treated if it is not too serious. Or if you want an operation it can take over 2 years if you are allowed it at all. 
             
            The NHS is a horrible place, and you are more likely to get sick just being in the hospitals. An average person will pay over £150k for the NHS over their lifetime through taxes. 
             
            The problem Libertarians have is that we no longer have any examples of the free market in healthcare. The governments meddle in every developed country. America having the worst of Socialism and the worst of Capitalism combined. We can only look at brief periods in time when there were free markets. Before the governments got involved in American health care prices were falling rapidly, quality was rising rapidly, it was more accessible and private than any other country in the world. The Scandinavian countries still get most of their technology and drugs from America because they were the most innovative. That is changing rapidly because of the FDA though. 
             
            Personally I am not a fan of being forced to by anything. I hate mandates. I want to decide for myself. Universal health care is a horrible use of force over people. I want to buy my products on the free market without any government intervention. 
             
            Progressive taxation is a sure way to discourage production. Punish the people who grow the economy and reward those who shrink the economy through consumption. Whatever is rewarded happens more, whatever is punished happens less. A tax is a punishment for success. 
             
            Don't care at all how many women or men work in a company. I do not want to do business with any company that overlooks the best person to meet a quota. If a man is the best qualified he should get the job no matter how many other men are in the company. It is sexist/ racist to refuse him a job based on his sex or white skin. Now racism/ sexism is wrong unless it is against white men. We need everyone to be treated as individuals not their groups. 
             
            Who pays the salaries for the women to raise children? The employer who is trying to take care of themselves and is now forced to look after someone elses child while they are not working? or the state? People who never have children are forced to pay for those who do? That is hardly a fair system. Again another horrible use of force and violation of private property. 
             
            The banking sector is the most regulated industry in America and look how that turned out. They only need to be regulated because of the moral hazard the government created by insuring bank accounts and mortgages. Then allowing fractional reserve banking. Taking the country off the gold standard so we now use worthless paper that can be created from nothing. Free market banking is self regulating. The banks will have 100% reserve so there will be no runs. Or they would have investment banks who lend out money for a set period of time and it cannot be claimed before that. Therefore banks would remain solvent and finally we could have deflation again, allowing poor people to save for retirement as their wages are more valuable each year. 
             
            You are good at pointing out the obvious seen benefits but seriously overlook the cost and consequences. For every benefit through government someone is left holding the bill for it or loses freedom. 

          5.  @Enrique Not sure where you are pulling your numbers from. The top tax rate in the US is over 60% when you total everything up. It looks like 15% because of the way people like Mitt Romney, Warren Buffet earn their income. But that is possible in Norway. They also have a lot of loopholes they are just not publicised as well as the US media does it. If you earn $10m per year in salary in New York you will pay around $6m of that to the Government just like in Norway. 35% federal, 9% state, 3% local, SS, medicare, property tax, sales tax, import tax, inflation and hundreds of other taxes that are hidden probably takes it over 60%. 

          6.  @Enrique Also give me 10 well paid workers over 10 slaves any day of the week and I will trump all the slave owners in profits. The North won the war because they were richer. The south lost because they could not compete and they had the slaves. Sorry but History is not on the Socialist Liberal side. They lose when the facts are presented every time. Hong Kong vs China. East Germany vs West Germany. North Korea vs South Korea. Free America vs the Rest of the world. Freedom always creates the most wealth for everyone. 

          7.  @WDavidC
             So,I am still waiting for an example where a libertarian philosophy is better than social democracies.  Maybe,Hong Kong?--freedom-and yet those countries like West Germany,South Korea and U.S. have regulated capitalism because it destroy itself.
             
             

          8.  @WDavidC
             Let's assume you are right-about 60% for all taxes in the U.S.--and yet the U.S has more billionaries than any other country.  Let's take the example of Mexico-where the richest person lives--Carlos Slim>Why is he the richest person in the world?because he has a monopoly in the telephone industry.--is that whay you mean by free markets?

          9.  @WDavidC
               the problem with the ibertarian mind is that they confused communist and totalitarian regimens with social democracies.  The economy is run by private companies in Scandinavia,the Netherelands and Germany.

          10.  @WDavidC
               I love how libertarian defined production--How about a teacher?A teacher in Finland makes $100,000 and out of the 500 slots,they have 5,000 apllications.  90% of the elementary teachers in the U.S. are women,why not make that a valuable,and well paid job?because that's not where males work.
               I guarantee you if society valued elementary teachers,and most were males,they will be getting raises and bonuses just like they do in corporations.

          11.  @Enrique Hey Enrique. Sorry Tried to reply sooner but I couldn't log in on my phone and just got my computer back. 
             
            Just wanted to throw in a point about Carlos Slim. I was curious as to how you feel he managed to create his monopoly in the Telephone industry in Mexico? How did he manage to keep out AT&T, Telephonica, Vodafone, Orange etc? How for so many years did none of these companies go into mexico and break his monopoly? Is it because he is providing such amazing service at such a low cost that no one could compete or did he use government to block any competition?
             
            I think your answer will quickly show why I love the free market and despise government intervention in the economy. 99% of Monopolies that have lasted over 5 years are propped up and protected by government while the small competition and the consumer is always sacrificed to support the monopoly. I challenge you to name 3 monopolies that lasted more than 5 years without government support or government over regulating small competition out of business. I have tried and not been able to find 3. Free markets destroy monopolies, governments create and protect them.
             
            Post Office, NHS, Schools, Universites, Big Pharma, Monsanto, Wall Street, Freddie and Fannie, Goldman Sachs etc.  

          12.  @Enrique  @WDavidC America was the closest example to the libertarian philosophy from 1800 - 1913. It was about 80-90% libertarian and created the largest and richest middle class ever seen. The reason capitalism always destroys itself is because free people allow free speech. Then the socialists move in and the free people let them discuss their ideas. Then the socialists decide that freedom isn't perfect so they group together and use force to get the things they want. 
             
            They legalise theft, force government money on people, regulate businesses out of business, put in minimum wages, set interest rates artificially, manipulate the money supply which creates booms and busts. Create moral hazards by insuring bank accounts and mortgages which allows over speculation. They create funny fiat money that allows fractional reserve banking and creates runs on the banks. They give special rules to some industries like banking, health care and schooling messing up price signals and creating malinvestment. They print money which creates inflation and wipes out the wages and savings of the middle class. They tax certain income classes which discourages them and subsidise others which wrongly encourages them. 
             
            They create monopolies and protect them then bail them out when they go bad. The list of Socialist polices that destroy capitalism is almost endless. Then capitalism gets the blame. 
             
            Every economic downturn in American history lasted 3-24months when they had gold backed money and government didn't get involved in fixing it. Then in 1927 the federal reserve lowered interest rates and increased money supply creating a stock market bubble, then when it burst in 29 the government created the biggest intervention in american history and the depression lasted 192 months. That is good evidence that free markets work and government mess the market up. 

    47.    Well,your issues are very vague about big goverment--another attempt at your libertarian ideology but no facts to back your beliefs in an economic systems for the 21th century.  Since you mentioned,that this will part of your book,I will to see the facts before commenting.
          When Libertarians,Repubicans and conservatives talk about Europe,they never mentioned the Scandinavian Model because it doesn't fit their ideology.  In fact,reality clashes with their ideology.  Norwegians pay the second highest taxes in the world and yet they have a $600 billion surplus.
         Hopefully,you will finally defined your political terms before a debate can happenned.
        As for social security--which by the way has run a surplus since its inception,and medicared-everyone has paid into the system.
         I wonder how you feel about the CEO giving themselves millions in compensations while they bankrupted the companies-the most agregrious examples have been the five largest banks in the U.S.

    48.  @WDavidC
       and the bailout worked for the car companies-thousands of Americans are working and the U.S. automobile is prospering.  They are even paying the loans back.

    49. The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology. The problem is that America does not. People still have the idea that America is an example of free market Capitalism, but it hasn't been since 1912. It is a perfect model of corruption and special interest groups screwing everyone for their own gain through the government. It is also a model of war mongering at a level that has never been seen before. The Americans have probably killed at least 30m people in the last 100 years. That is part of the reason why they are in so much debt
       
      Scandinavia does most things much much better than America because at least their government programs are actually designed to help poor people. It does it much worse than the free market would do it though. In America the poverty programs are designed to help the lobbyists.
       
      America has the highest corporation tax in the world. Citizens of America pay tax on income not even earned in America. Many are actually paying over 60% of their income to the government when you add all the hidden taxes. The Federal Reserve is wiping out the middle class with huge inflation. Average people can no longer work and save their way to wealth, almost everyone has to be an investor, or business owner to get wealthy.
       
      In the old America products got cheaper every year. Savings were more valuable every year. People could put away 10% of what they earn and be rich in Retirement. Now if you put away 10% in Dollars you will have almost nothing in retirement. Inflation is running at about 10% if you use the 1970 CPI calculation, not the new manipulated one to help hide the inflation.
       
      On the Bailouts point you made below, Of course they worked. When a thief robs a bank he does very well from it. That is obvious. In a free market they would have gone bust and another company would have bought the good assets and then the company would have been successful long term. Now they will be back for another bailout in less than 5 years. Guaranteed!!!! Because the company did not fix the problems
       
       
      Also, It is foolish to use Republicans and libertarians in the same example because they are almost exactly opposite.Republicans and democrats are almost identical. More war, more spending, more debt, more inflation, more programs, more inflation, more restrictions, more laws, continue the drug wars, IRS, Federal Reserve, NAFTA, U.N, internet regulation etc etc. Libertarians are for less or none of all the above.
       
       

    50.  @WDavidCz
       The Scandinavian Model fits perfectly with the libertarian ideology.  So,please defined what you mean by Libertarian.  As a I have studied history,Libertarian wanted less goverment and the "invisible hand" of the market would balanced supply and demand. 
          Libertarians don't believe in Social Security,Medicared,the EPA,the Federal Reserved and so on.
         Maybe,Randy,will defined how he defined Libertarian--maybe it is different of the policial social history of the 18th century in France since that's where it originated.
         Mitt Rommey pay at a 15% tax bracket.  Why hasn't he released his income tax because they are moving the money from the tax havens in Bermudas.
         Danes pay the highest taxes in the world and their economy is growing.--let's say compared them to Mexico where the richest person lives and 1/2 of the population makes $800.00 per month.

    51.  @Enrique  @WDavidCz You said libertarians never mention Scandinavia because it does not fit their ideology. I was not saying that Scandinavian was libertarian, I was saying that it perfectly backs up the libertarian view of the world when we actually know the facts and not the propaganda.
       
      The people who praise Scandinavia so highly are generally people who have never actually lived there. They look at statistics and base their view on that and then compare it with America (the so called beacon of small government and capitalism, laughing as I type this because they are the opposite of that). 
       
      It seems great compared to the corruption capital of the western world (USA) or other Socialist European countries like Spain, Greece, Romania, UK etc. But it is far far off being the best way to live. 
       
      What is wrong with Moving money to tax havens? America was founded by people who wanted to avoid tax. Avoiding tax and people taking care of themselves is the most American thing a person can do. I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be looking down thinking - "if only people would be more patriotic and pay more taxes!" He would be rolling in his grave at the thought of the taxes and rules imposed on the American People. 
       
      Corporate tax rate in Norway is 28% last time I checked. Sweden 26%. America 35%. USA has a lower personal tax rate but the highest corporate tax rate, hardly a free market. 
       
      If we had a real free market the economy wouldn't only be growing it would be booming every year and we wouldn't be having all the booms and busts caused by the Federal Reserve and Congress.
       
      The world had 2 classes for thousands of years. Rich Royals, Politicians and Churchmen then there were the struggling masses. Then in 200 years of American free market the largest and richest middle class in the history of the world was created. But now that it is Socialist like the rest of the world the middle class is being wiped out and the friends of the politicians are getting much much richer and the poor are getting much much poorer. This will continue until freedom is restored and we have real money again. Not funny government fiat currency. We need the rules to be lifted from small businesses so that low income people can compete against the corporations that use the regulations to destroy their small competition. 
       
       
       
       

    52. What are the facts about Scandinavia according to you?These what I have learned and saw when I visited Sweden and Norway.
      1)No homeless people.
      2)Universal health insurance.
      3)Banks are regulated
      4)Progressive taxation
      5)40% of board of directors in the Norwegians companies are women
      6)women and men are paid half of their salaries to raised their kids for a year.
      and yet there are millionaries in those small countries.
        And of course,they never taught in your American history that "English" have slaves doing all the dirty work. --You just proved my point-A libertarian stuck in 1776.
         Please explain to me why most of the wealth of nation is been created in California?A state that have higher taxes and more regulations than the rest of the country.--
        These is the problem withl libertarians,they still stuck in Agragrian and Industrial Age when we are living in a knoweldge based economy.
         Please give specific examples like I have to defend your point if you can. 
       

    53. And of course,you forgot to mentioned that personal income tax for the top 1% is 15% or less while in Denmark is 60% and they don't have all the tax-loopholes created for the corporations.
       

    54.  @Enrique As far as Socialism goes, Norway probably is in the top 10 most desirable structures. Their health care is a lot better than most other Socialist Countries. I live in the UK, at my local hospitals you will wait at least 9 hours in a waiting room to get someone to see you. Then you may have to wait weeks to get treated if it is not too serious. Or if you want an operation it can take over 2 years if you are allowed it at all. 
       
      The NHS is a horrible place, and you are more likely to get sick just being in the hospitals. An average person will pay over £150k for the NHS over their lifetime through taxes. 
       
      The problem Libertarians have is that we no longer have any examples of the free market in healthcare. The governments meddle in every developed country. America having the worst of Socialism and the worst of Capitalism combined. We can only look at brief periods in time when there were free markets. Before the governments got involved in American health care prices were falling rapidly, quality was rising rapidly, it was more accessible and private than any other country in the world. The Scandinavian countries still get most of their technology and drugs from America because they were the most innovative. That is changing rapidly because of the FDA though. 
       
      Personally I am not a fan of being forced to by anything. I hate mandates. I want to decide for myself. Universal health care is a horrible use of force over people. I want to buy my products on the free market without any government intervention. 
       
      Progressive taxation is a sure way to discourage production. Punish the people who grow the economy and reward those who shrink the economy through consumption. Whatever is rewarded happens more, whatever is punished happens less. A tax is a punishment for success. 
       
      Don't care at all how many women or men work in a company. I do not want to do business with any company that overlooks the best person to meet a quota. If a man is the best qualified he should get the job no matter how many other men are in the company. It is sexist/ racist to refuse him a job based on his sex or white skin. Now racism/ sexism is wrong unless it is against white men. We need everyone to be treated as individuals not their groups. 
       
      Who pays the salaries for the women to raise children? The employer who is trying to take care of themselves and is now forced to look after someone elses child while they are not working? or the state? People who never have children are forced to pay for those who do? That is hardly a fair system. Again another horrible use of force and violation of private property. 
       
      The banking sector is the most regulated industry in America and look how that turned out. They only need to be regulated because of the moral hazard the government created by insuring bank accounts and mortgages. Then allowing fractional reserve banking. Taking the country off the gold standard so we now use worthless paper that can be created from nothing. Free market banking is self regulating. The banks will have 100% reserve so there will be no runs. Or they would have investment banks who lend out money for a set period of time and it cannot be claimed before that. Therefore banks would remain solvent and finally we could have deflation again, allowing poor people to save for retirement as their wages are more valuable each year. 
       
      You are good at pointing out the obvious seen benefits but seriously overlook the cost and consequences. For every benefit through government someone is left holding the bill for it or loses freedom. 

    55.  @Enrique Not sure where you are pulling your numbers from. The top tax rate in the US is over 60% when you total everything up. It looks like 15% because of the way people like Mitt Romney, Warren Buffet earn their income. But that is possible in Norway. They also have a lot of loopholes they are just not publicised as well as the US media does it. If you earn $10m per year in salary in New York you will pay around $6m of that to the Government just like in Norway. 35% federal, 9% state, 3% local, SS, medicare, property tax, sales tax, import tax, inflation and hundreds of other taxes that are hidden probably takes it over 60%. 

    56.  @Enrique Also give me 10 well paid workers over 10 slaves any day of the week and I will trump all the slave owners in profits. The North won the war because they were richer. The south lost because they could not compete and they had the slaves. Sorry but History is not on the Socialist Liberal side. They lose when the facts are presented every time. Hong Kong vs China. East Germany vs West Germany. North Korea vs South Korea. Free America vs the Rest of the world. Freedom always creates the most wealth for everyone. 

    57.  @WDavidC
       So,I am still waiting for an example where a libertarian philosophy is better than social democracies.  Maybe,Hong Kong?--freedom-and yet those countries like West Germany,South Korea and U.S. have regulated capitalism because it destroy itself.
       
       

    58.  @WDavidC
       Let's assume you are right-about 60% for all taxes in the U.S.--and yet the U.S has more billionaries than any other country.  Let's take the example of Mexico-where the richest person lives--Carlos Slim>Why is he the richest person in the world?because he has a monopoly in the telephone industry.--is that whay you mean by free markets?

    59.  @WDavidC
         the problem with the ibertarian mind is that they confused communist and totalitarian regimens with social democracies.  The economy is run by private companies in Scandinavia,the Netherelands and Germany.

    60.  @WDavidC
         I love how libertarian defined production--How about a teacher?A teacher in Finland makes $100,000 and out of the 500 slots,they have 5,000 apllications.  90% of the elementary teachers in the U.S. are women,why not make that a valuable,and well paid job?because that's not where males work.
         I guarantee you if society valued elementary teachers,and most were males,they will be getting raises and bonuses just like they do in corporations.

    61.  @Enrique Hey Enrique. Sorry Tried to reply sooner but I couldn't log in on my phone and just got my computer back. 
       
      Just wanted to throw in a point about Carlos Slim. I was curious as to how you feel he managed to create his monopoly in the Telephone industry in Mexico? How did he manage to keep out AT&T, Telephonica, Vodafone, Orange etc? How for so many years did none of these companies go into mexico and break his monopoly? Is it because he is providing such amazing service at such a low cost that no one could compete or did he use government to block any competition?
       
      I think your answer will quickly show why I love the free market and despise government intervention in the economy. 99% of Monopolies that have lasted over 5 years are propped up and protected by government while the small competition and the consumer is always sacrificed to support the monopoly. I challenge you to name 3 monopolies that lasted more than 5 years without government support or government over regulating small competition out of business. I have tried and not been able to find 3. Free markets destroy monopolies, governments create and protect them.
       
      Post Office, NHS, Schools, Universites, Big Pharma, Monsanto, Wall Street, Freddie and Fannie, Goldman Sachs etc.  

    62.  @Enrique  @WDavidC America was the closest example to the libertarian philosophy from 1800 - 1913. It was about 80-90% libertarian and created the largest and richest middle class ever seen. The reason capitalism always destroys itself is because free people allow free speech. Then the socialists move in and the free people let them discuss their ideas. Then the socialists decide that freedom isn't perfect so they group together and use force to get the things they want. 
       
      They legalise theft, force government money on people, regulate businesses out of business, put in minimum wages, set interest rates artificially, manipulate the money supply which creates booms and busts. Create moral hazards by insuring bank accounts and mortgages which allows over speculation. They create funny fiat money that allows fractional reserve banking and creates runs on the banks. They give special rules to some industries like banking, health care and schooling messing up price signals and creating malinvestment. They print money which creates inflation and wipes out the wages and savings of the middle class. They tax certain income classes which discourages them and subsidise others which wrongly encourages them. 
       
      They create monopolies and protect them then bail them out when they go bad. The list of Socialist polices that destroy capitalism is almost endless. Then capitalism gets the blame. 
       
      Every economic downturn in American history lasted 3-24months when they had gold backed money and government didn't get involved in fixing it. Then in 1927 the federal reserve lowered interest rates and increased money supply creating a stock market bubble, then when it burst in 29 the government created the biggest intervention in american history and the depression lasted 192 months. That is good evidence that free markets work and government mess the market up. 

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